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 Post subject: Fall Out From Washington State Bail Discounting
 Post Posted: Thu 08 Mar 2012 18:33 
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 Post subject: Re: Fall Out From Washington State Bail Discounting
 Post Posted: Thu 08 Mar 2012 19:23 
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Quote:
Also up for summer discussion is whether to allow defendants to pay in other ways besides cash. Hurst said he believes the work group will reach an agreement.


I know a property bondsman who has a yard full of lawn mowers, used cars and other assorted items that he has taken rather than cash... I once took a very nice watch and a few diamond rings as collateral but as to the premium... I get 10%, period.

Virgina now requires 10% from both property and surety... something that finally levels the field between the two types of bondmen here. For years, property bondsmen could charge 8% and many were charging far less.... there are also those that collect $100 regardless of the amount of the bond and then try to collect the rest after the defendant is released... how can we compete with that?????????????

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 Post subject: Re: Fall Out From Washington State Bail Discounting
 Post Posted: Thu 08 Mar 2012 22:14 
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Quote:
Amy Muth, who represents the Washington Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers on the task force, said setting a minimum could keep bail out of reach for poor defendants.
But she doesn’t rule out a compromise, which Hurst said could be packaged with elements of HB 2668 sought by defense attorneys. The bill would have ended the ability of bondsmen to have general power of attorney over those who seek bail – a practice that gives the agent control over a client’s finances and assets.
“If they feel insecure at any point with the bond, they can basically go in and just wipe you out,” Muth said.


You know this will not fly :\ Bill, eventually folks are gonna run outta chickens . . . then what they gonna do ?

Sam221 ~ what is the poop there ? Do you guys do Sheriff's Bonds or Property Bonds (with the Court) ? That may be where that is leading if they do not already.

Here it is 10 % with minimum being 50 + fees (70). I have seen Bonds set high enough to make it impossible to make it.

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 Post subject: Re: Fall Out From Washington State Bail Discounting
 Post Posted: Fri 09 Mar 2012 01:04 
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Lu Vonda, here in the state of Washington,we have surety&property bonds. As for the defence lawyers losing sleep over the poor not being able to afford the bailbond, BOO (F'ing) HOO ! What's that movie line ? (STOP BREAKING THE LAW, A$$HOLE ! Then the poor and anyone else for that matter would not NEED a bailbond.
In ref to your other Q. Bailbond recovery agents here can only do recovery work on bail clients. We can't go and pull warrants from the court and work them... I wish that was the case.
As for paying the bailbond, by law the bail companys MUST charge 10% to post the bond. But it's common pratice to do half down and a payment plan on the other half. But when the client fails to pay the other half, to bad so sad. We by law can't revoke a bond just because of non payment.
Although we do by just saying a little birdy told us that the client was about to leave town. We don't have to prove that fact, we just have to say it. The Bailbonds here are so A$$backwards I would love nothing more than to just get the hell out. Then maybe I would not keep geting ripped off by the bondsman. I trust the skip more than I trust any bondsman, atleast with the skip I know exactly where they are comming from.

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 Post subject: Re: Fall Out From Washington State Bail Discounting
 Post Posted: Fri 09 Mar 2012 06:32 
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Quote:
Then the poor and anyone else for that matter would not NEED a bailbond.

The circle continues... break the law, get arrested, get a bond, get released, break the law, get arrested, get a bond, get released... LE arrests the law breakers, judges or magistrates "may or may not" set the bond... but the deal is this... pressure from all sides is reducing the bond amounts or invoking pretrial with PR release because the jails are overcrowded and the tax revenues are down and the pressure mounts from all corners to reduce costs... everyone is caught in the fire... DCJS and other agencies see a chance to feather their cap and pull in more revenue... so they support pretrial... liberal politicians tout the "poor man can't afford to bond out so were gonna let him go with pretrial supervision"... all tax supported... kick the "bad ole bondsman" out of the mix... the government can handle this problem... the circle continues... new jails are being built continuously... and others are closing down... go figure... we have a major facility going up in Brunswick county Virginia..."MEHERRIN RIVER REGIONAL JAIL" and then Mecklenburg is losing a facility and the local jail in Lawrenceville is closing... lay offs and transferees... jails are going private... pretrial is looming on the horizon everywhere... there is so much going on in this business that it is virtually impossible for a little man to keep up...

Quote:
In ref to your other Q. Bailbond recovery agents here can only do recovery work on bail clients. We can't go and pull warrants from the court and work them... I wish that was the case.


Well, that is the name of the game... "bailbond recovery agents" (BEA's) only work the bail skips... FTA's... LE works all other warrants... we are fighting a virtually impossible fight... trying to convince the powers that be... that bail bonds and bail recovery is a totally self supporting private business but the problem is that the agencies that are sliding the other way... DCJS and others... see an opportunity to pull in much needed revenue and bolster their agendas and feather their own caps... power and money. Question: if you work a warrant from the courts, not a bondsman, who pays you? I would think that is a major factor.... LE is already on the payroll, yes it does take manpower away from more pressing matters but that is why so many stay free... LE just doesn't have the time to devote schedules to chasing skips.

Quote:
As for paying the bailbond, by law the bail companys MUST charge 10% to post the bond. But it's common pratice to do half down and a payment plan on the other half. But when the client fails to pay the other half, to bad so sad. We by law can't revoke a bond just because of non payment. Although we do by just saying a little birdy told us that the client was about to leave town.


Common practice here... I have never had a judge or magistrate question my revocation, in fact... many times... the CA will actually welcome the defendants return to jail... I've had thank you emails many times form local authorities after I revoked a bond for whatever reason. I don't revoke them often, but if needed, it shall be done.


Quote:
The Bailbonds here are so A$$backwards I would love nothing more than to just get the hell out. Then maybe I would not keep geting ripped off by the bondsman. I trust the skip more than I trust any bondsman, atleast with the skip I know exactly where they are comming from.


Wow, do I denote a bit of resentment and frustration here... I will agree with you... there are many very unscrupulous bondsmen in the business... I pride myself in trying to be straight up with all I deal with... I don't always have the money to pay the higher fees but I set up the amount up front and I always pay what I say I will... it may not always be the highest rate on a pickup, but the recovery agent knows up front what I am willing to pay and I always try to do the right thing... cause I just might have to call him again... :roll: ... besides, I really don't want to give someone another reason to "talk about me behind my back"... I have enough issues out there without adding "cheapskate" to the mix.... :oops:

I have always provided a very wide variety of items for the rank and file on this site to chew on me... don't need more... :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: 8) 8) 8) :shock: :shock:

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"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that , comes from bad judgment" "Will Rogers"


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 Post subject: Re: Fall Out From Washington State Bail Discounting
 Post Posted: Fri 09 Mar 2012 08:54 
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Consider multiple revenue streams: I have recovered many skips that were released on 10% payable to the court bonds, when they skip, the judge demands payment, and Grandma says, what recourse do I have? The judge says, "You are the bondsman, go lock them up!" and then the Bailiff tells the bewildered client to call me. Problem solved and Scotty develops another revenue stream. Stop bitching, peel the onion back and market yourself as the problem solver and go get paid!

Scott

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 Post subject: Re: Fall Out From Washington State Bail Discounting
 Post Posted: Fri 09 Mar 2012 11:17 
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Let me once again express my appreciation that I am from Indiana where credit bonding is not only illegal, but a felony to boot.

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 Post subject: Re: Fall Out From Washington State Bail Discounting
 Post Posted: Sat 10 Mar 2012 09:30 
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This is a bit lengthy and repeats a little... but imho, interesting... sometimes the links to the article will not connect, so here it is... these articles were copied off Bail USA/Seneca's website. Came to me in an email since I am a surety agent with Seneca.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

MECKLENBURG COUNTY, N.C. —
Mecklenburg County's courts are hiring two researchers to see if too many people are getting out of jail for free.
The researchers will review jail and court records to see if those getting out of jail without posting bond are more likely to miss their court dates.
Local bondsmen have just finished their own research that they say shows that's exactly what's happening.
"It's a get-out-of-jail free at taxpayer expense," said Jim Camp, a bondsman who authorized the study.Camp said they looked at jail and court records covering six months between October 2010 and March 2011 and found that 43 percent of those arrested were released with “unsecured bonds" -- essentially with a promise to appear in court, but no cash.
Camp said that 24 percent of them failed to show up for court, and 17 percent of that group still have outstanding warrants."It's absolutely something I'm interested in looking at," said Chief District Court Judge Lisa Bell.Bell had met with Camp and discussed the issue with other court leaders.
Bell said they are hiring the researchers to go over that data and find out if it's correct.If need be, she said, they would make changes."We want to look at how we're not doing this effectively and how we are doing it effectively," Bell said.
The research is expected to be complete in several months.

Higher bails likely in courts despite deadlock in Olympia
An intense effort to reform the state's largely unregulated bail-bond industry died in the waning days of the legislative session because of an ideological dispute between law enforcement and advocates for the poor.
By Jonathan Martin
Seattle Times staff report:
An effort to tighten up the state's largely unregulated bail-bond industry quietly died in the waning days of the legislative session because of an ideological dispute between law enforcement and advocates for the poor.
The bail legislation, addressing one of the largest public-policy issues to arise from the 2009 slayings of four Lakewood police officers, would have for the first time set mandatory minimums for what defendants must pay to post bail bonds.
As a result of failed negotiations, bail amounts across the state are likely to rise as judges and prosecutors are left to guess how much defendants are paying to be released from jail before trial. After the murders of the four officers in a Lakewood coffee shop, The Seattle Times found that shooter Maurice Clemmons had posted just 4 percent of his $190,000 bail to win his release six days before the attack.
That revelation surprised prosecutors and judges, who had widely assumed a defendant must pay a 10 percent premium to a bail-bonding agency for the agency to post a bond.
But an effort late in the 2011 legislative session to set a floor for bailing bonds — even at 5 percent of the bail amount — was killed after Sen. Adam Kline, D-Seattle, opposed it.
Kline, chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee, said the late proposal, floated by the state's prosecuting attorneys, would have been unfair to poor defendants, who have benefited from competition among bail-bonding agencies.
"I don't want wealthy people getting out while poor people don't get out for lack of money," said Kline, who represents Seattle's Rainier Valley. "We rejected the idea of debtor's prison early in this game in this country, and that's a sort of debtor's prison."
Tom McBride, executive director of the Washington Association of Prosecuting Attorneys, said prosecutors wanted a floor so they — and the public — would know how much "skin in the game" a defendant had. When it became clear Kline opposed the idea, McBride's group agreed to let the bill die and negotiate further after the session.
"Our goal is not to make it so you can't make bail. We just want to know what bail means," he said.
Bail bonds are akin to an insurance policy, allowing a defendant to be released from jail in exchange for a promise to show up for the next court hearing. If a defendant flees, the bondsman must post the entire bail amount if unable to find the absconder.
A defendant pays a nonrefundable premium — either 10 percent or less — to a bail bondsman, and often must also post collateral. Because the state does not set a minimum level of premium, bonding agents are left to calculate their own level of risk, and often provide discounts for defendants using private attorneys, rather than public defenders, or those serving in the military.
A task force set up after the Clemmons shootings recommended a series of changes, including giving judges more information about a defendant's mental health and access to a risk-assessment tool before bail is set. But the group, which included law enforcement, civil libertarians and bondsmen, could not reach consensus on a mandatory minimum payment.
Bail practices vary widely across the nation, but the 10 percent premium appears to be an industry standard. Oregon, for example, prohibits bail bondsmen but requires defendants to post 10 percent of the bail amount with a county court.
In Olympia, even the details of how a 10 percent premium would work were fought over.
Rep. Troy Kelley, D-Tacoma, said there was debate about whether defendants should be allowed to use credit cards to post the 10 percent premium.
Denny Behrend, a Seattle bail bondsman and member of the task force, said legitimate bail agents want more regulation, including a 10 percent minimum. "We're not selling cars or refrigerators where you can discount the price," said Behrend, of Lacey O'Malley Bail Bonds. "We're dealing with the rights of American citizens and public safety."
"We want to see the race to the bottom stopped," said Troy Hansen, owner of Seattle's All City Bail Bonds.
Clemmons, the Lakewood shooter, posted bail three times in the months leading up to the killings. In the last instance, Clemmons was repeatedly rejected by bail bondsmen until he found a cut-rate agency willing to post his $190,000 bail bond on a pending child-rape charge for $8,000 and a promise to make payments.
Clemmons also put up a home as collateral, even though the property appeared to be worth less than he owed.
After the murders, the Pierce County judge who set the bail amount said he was shocked at the cutthroat competition.
"Folk wisdom has always been that you need 10 percent in cash" to post bond, said Kitsap County Prosecutor Russ Hauge. "But then we find out there are companies that are writing bail bonds for two or three percent. That means that what we thought was a pretty reasonable bail amount in practical effect isn't a significant sum at all."
Unsure what a bail figure really means, his office has been requesting higher bail amounts when a defendant poses a risk to public safety. Last week, Hauge said, his staff asked for a $1 million bail against men accused of eluding and shooting at police officers. In the past, Hauge said he might have requested $500,000.
As a consequence of inaction in Olympia, another bail practice at issue in the Clemmons case — "booking bail" — will resume in the seven counties that currently allow it. Booking bail, used on weekends and more often in some rural counties, sets a bail amount based on a predetermined schedule, meaning that a defendant does not have to see a judge before being allowed to post bail.
The failed legislation does not affect a 2010 constitutional amendment giving judges more authority to deny bail if they find a defendant is a serious threat to public safety. The impact of the amendment is unclear, since the state courts administration isn't tracking judges' use of the new authority.
Jonathan Martin: 206-464-2605 or jmartin@seattletimes.com

_________________
Bill Marx, Sr.
"FREE STATE BAIL BONDS"
"FREE STATE INVESTIGATIONS"

DCJS: 99-176979
Cell: 434-294-0222

"Endeavor to Persevere" "Lone Watie"

"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that , comes from bad judgment" "Will Rogers"


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