Newbie, loaded with questions...

Fugitive Recovery is something that I've been interested in for a while, but only recently have I been able to dig up enough actual information to even consider getting started on that path.

First of all, before I ask any questions, I would like to put a few things out there:

1.) This interest was not sparked by Duane Chapman's TV show, nor am I particularly fond of him. I'm not just saying that because it's what you want to hear, either.

2.) This is something I'm interested in doing 'part time', you might say. In other words, it is something that I would take seriously and dedicate a due amount of focus to, but not something that I would want to consume every last drop of my time or energy. I understand that any life threatening situation must be faced with the utmost seriousness, and I'm not implying otherwise.

3.) I'm interested in doing this 'as a team', with other like-minded friends of mine who share a similar interest in this career. This means (I think) that we would need to present ourselves as a team when applying for positions rather than attempting to all hire in as individuals.

4.) I'm not a Fugitive Recovery Agent and so far the only step I've taken toward becoming one is research.

Now, hopefully you'll still take my questions seriously, but I didn't want to pretend to be something I'm not. I ask these of you because from what I can tell, and from all the sources I've checked, you people seem to be the most down to the earth and experienced (also, you're the only people I've found that aren't out to hard-sell equipment or training materials).

Also, the only reason I'm pestering with these questions is because if this is something I want to pursue, I want to be able to make the most informed decision possible. Answer any, all, or none of the questions, in any order you wish. Thanks for your time.

Questions:

(For reference, the state in question is New Mexico)

A.) "Bringing the Whole Crew" - So as I've mentioned, some close friends and I wish to enter this together. None of us have received 'official' training, though all of us are at least somewhat competent with weapons and tactically minded [I acknowledge that weapons and tactics are not the point of Fugitive Recovery]. None of us are certified at this point either. So, the question is, where do we need to start, and what steps should we take to legally solidify ourselves as a team, and present ourselves for employment?

B.) "Run Through" - Can you give me a quick rundown on a text book recovery? In summary terms of course. Is there a specific professional etiquette one must follow during apprehension? Are there legal rituals such as 'reading them their rights' (as it pertains to police officers), that apply to this trade?

C.) "When to Use Non-Lethal Force" - When confronting your skip, when should you or your team cross the line and use non-lethal force to apprehend them? What are you legally allowed or not allowed to do, and when, and where? And I'm talking grappling, tasers, mace, whatever.

D.) "Multiple Stun-gun Hits" - Say you're confronting an enormous, enraged skip. The option of taking him down bodily is exhausted. Say that multiple agents fire stun-guns into the skip's body. Would this put the target's life at risk? Would more than one stun-gun hit be required to take a large (healthy), enraged man down?

E.) "When to Shoot" - At what point does a confrontation cross the line where you should even be entertaining the option of firing on your skip? If you take this question on, please be thorough.

F.) "When to Retreat" - Finally, when do you draw the line and pull yourself and your team out of a dangerous situation. I've seen the story of the "motel room full of drug smugglers with assault weapons, etc.", but that seems a bit extreme. A more down to earth example, perhaps?

G.) "Calling it Quits" - So say you've got a skip that for whatever reason, you are unable or unwilling to apprehend. He's either left the country, he's armed and protected by a small army of other armed individuals and it's not worth the risk, or whatever. What happens then? I've heard references to "just pay the forfeiture and have done with it", but I don't know what that means. I assume it's a fee you have to pay if you fail to bring in a skip that you've been assigned to.

That's it for the questions.

Let me take this opportunity to apologize for my over use of the term 'skip'. I'm not trying to sound more savvy than I really am.

I appreciate you taking your time to read this and possibly answer a few of these questions. Thanks very much.

First off let me say that the inquiry is incredibly organized, well articulated, and definately deserving of a response as equal to the quality of your questions as possible.

Here is my attempt:

A.) "Bringing the Whole Crew" - So as I've mentioned, some close friends and I wish to enter this together. None of us have received 'official' training, though all of us are at least somewhat competent with weapons and tactically minded [I acknowledge that weapons and tactics are not the point of Fugitive Recovery]. None of us are certified at this point either. So, the question is, where do we need to start, and what steps should we take to legally solidify ourselves as a team, and present ourselves for employment?

--- Begin Opinion A ---

Training can be received from quite a few different sources out there.

As far as equipment training and certification, those are readily out there for the right price. The better schools can be a bit pricey but definately a step up from an NRA course (while good for the average user, definatley not something up to the level of, say, the gunsite institute or thunder ranch and others).

Now as far as actual "bail recovery training", there are several schools out there that can be found on the internet that may give you ideas on how to locate and apprehend "skips". The important thing is to review the laws of your state (easily enough done and it would be pointless for me to post the laws of New Mexico as you can see them for yourself by clicking the 'Law Directory' link on this website). If there is a state agency regulating the profession in your state then there will be licensing requirements and information on how to obtain that license (ie; courses needed, experience required, fees, etc.)

The first step would be to find out what your state requires then go down the list. Do what you need to do, State wise, to obtain your license. Once that is accomplished then, whenever you can afford it, take classes from reputable institutions. One should never stop learning. In Law Enforcement we were required to attend a 40 hour recertification course every year (of course this was paid for by the city and didn't come out of my own pocket LOL. That changes things quite a bit, however, whenever I can afford it I try to attend seminars, classes, or purchase study material to keep up on current "tricks of the trade").

Now a sub topic of your question regarding the "bringing the crew". You may or may not have difficulty in obtaining business for the "whole crew" as the more mouths to feed means less stew for you. So financially that may not be feasable for jobs that do not pay a lot. That's something you will have to decide on a case by case basis.

Oh yes, and you will also have to decide on becoming a BONDSMAN or a RECOVERY AGENT. Bondsman not only have the authority to pick up their own skips, they also write the bonds to begin with. a Bondsman's Agent, on the other hand, works for the said Bondsman.

--- End Opinion A ---

B.) "Run Through" - Can you give me a quick rundown on a text book recovery? In summary terms of course. Is there a specific professional etiquette one must follow during apprehension? Are there legal rituals such as 'reading them their rights' (as it pertains to police officers), that apply to this trade?

--- Begin Opinion B ---

There is no specific 'official' etiquette one must follow during apprehension. There again you must follow the laws and regualtions of the jurisdiction you happen to be in. I'm sure you realize after perusing this site that there are quite a few different ways of handling different states, cities, and counties (thus bringing up the age old arguement for nationalization).

As far as "reading them their rights", you are not considered an agent of law enforcement and so therefore are not required by law to read a subject their rights. Interestingly enough, unless one has obtained evidence through interrogation or such, even a police officer is not required to read a person their "rights" (please note that the correct term is Miranda Rights. To read someone all of their "rights" would take quite a long time LOL)... but I digress.

You have to make sure you do not violate the subjects CIVIL rights as it has already been determined by the courst that a Bondsman or his Agent do not have immunity under the law, regarding that matter, and can be sued civilly for such violations (ie; you can not beat him for no reason, discriminate, etc.).

Now for a "runthrough" regarding a fairly simple, everyday, non-extreme, "text-book", probably going to happen more than not, recovery...

Went down to KY to look for a couple skips for a bonding company out of TN. After checking out the former apartment of one skip and talking to the neighbors (the apt was abandoned) it was discovered that the skip had moved to Ohio and since he was worth less than a grand, there was no way I was driving to Ohio (I already was almost 400 miles from my hometown on this one). So I moved on to the next two on my list.

Now I am in the country on the next two and after driving around in the sticks for a couple of hours (thank god we brought the 4x4) I managed to "trick" a neighbor (remember this is the country and in such settings you will find that people who have lived there for awhile all know each other) into believing I was a "friend" of the skip who had forgotten where he lived.

Once I had acquired the address we parked up a hill a couple of miles away from the address (we had already reconoitered the residence), hidden from the road, and went to sleep for a couple of hours (it was late at this point and since we didn't want to go pounding on a door at 11 o'clock at night without some type of visual on the skips we decided to get them early the next morning).

Morning rolls around and we go knocking on the door. Mom comes to the door and after speaking with her a few minutes she directs us to the trailer next to the house (where we suspected they lived) and even tried to get them to come out. They refused to answer the door even with the Mom there. Now keep in mind, I was in KY and KY has very specific laws regarding what you can and can't do to recover a skip (even if those laws are in violation of US TvT). So I wasn't about to go breaking down the door. Instead we were honest with the mother about what could happen to her daughter if she did not come willingly and that our next step would be to go get a warrant for her arrest and come back with the PD in which case she would do even more jail time while awaiting extradition (note that most people bonded out have signed extradition waivers).

We said we would be back in a few hours and drove down the road and waited. We came back in one hour and there was the skip sitting on the front porch talking with her Mom. There was nowhere for her to run so she just sat there. After speaking with her she agreed that she wanted to handle the problem and requested that we transport her to the bondsman in TN so she could do so. She even signed requests for us to do so. She then told us where to find the other fellow (turns out it wasn't her boyfriend but her sisters boyfriend).

We transported her to the state line and turned her over to the bondsman who came to meet us. We then went back and after some shinnanigans by the other skip involving a four wheeler and some hullaballoo, convinced him to turn himself in and request transport (he actually wound up calling us and had us meet him).

They were not restrained in any way.

All in all a good non-violent "recovery" from KY (and a perfectly 'legal' one by KY law standards).

That was actually an easy recovery taking more time than anything. We did one in MO in 04 which was also non - eventful, though the guy was hiding in the attic and we got him as he was trying to run out the front door (we pretended to leave then showed up unexpectedly... I had contacted the mother of his wife, who didn't like him, who told us where he was hiding and so we gave him an hour or so and nailed him as he was trying to flee). Now this guy we cuffed LOL.

Now as far as proceedures. We showed them all the paperwork and advised them of the situation. That is the most important thing, legally... make sure you have all the paperwork. Proof of the Bond. Failure to appear warrant. Some states even require other types of paperwork (ie; if you aren't the bondsman, a letter from the bondsman identifying you as his agent, etc.).

--- End Opinion B ---

C.) "When to Use Non-Lethal Force" - When confronting your skip, when should you or your team cross the line and use non-lethal force to apprehend them? What are you legally allowed or not allowed to do, and when, and where? And I'm talking grappling, tasers, mace, whatever.

--- Begin Opinion C ---

Again, this will depend on your State. Generally you may use the "minimum amount of force neccessary to effect the arrest". Remember that T v T likens it to the re-arrest by a Sherrif. So in a sense you have the same authority that a "Sherrif" does to arrest an escaping prisoner. Note that the fleeing felon law was done away with many years ago and even Law Enforcment is NOT allowed to use deadly force in such instances nor are they allowed to use deadly force in situations in which they do NOT fear for their life or serious physical injury (as defined by most state laws) for themselves or another.

Remember, should such a case arise you will have to be able to articulate your reasons for using force. In general you should know your use of force continuum (sp?) and have some type of use of force policy in place for your "team" as well as yourself (looks good in court). Generally it goes: Verbal, Physical, Pressure point control (requires training in most states), Chemical or Impact (again requires training in most states), then Deadly Force (better be able to show you were in fear for your life or serious physical injury).

Obviously you don't want to just walk up to the guy and shoot him with your taser. While we may all get a chuckle out of visualizing that, you could get into quite a bit of trouble if it is shown it was unneccessary.

--- End Opinion C ---

D.) "Multiple Stun-gun Hits" - Say you're confronting an enormous, enraged skip. The option of taking him down bodily is exhausted. Say that multiple agents fire stun-guns into the skip's body. Would this put the target's life at risk? Would more than one stun-gun hit be required to take a large (healthy), enraged man down?

E.) "When to Shoot" - At what point does a confrontation cross the line where you should even be entertaining the option of firing on your skip? If you take this question on, please be thorough.

--- Begin Opinion D & E ---

Ok these are pretty much the same as Opinion C.

On the topic of stun guns. I personally have a 500,000v Stun Baton (remember it is the amps that kill and not the voltage) and have been zapped by that sucker. It did not put me down and they held it on till it had stopped discharging... it did leave a couple of nice burn marks though (I do not advise doing this but like when I received my OC training in the department I took a full face spray by the training sgt. It was required for certification... good to know what something feels like on your opponent so you know what kind of effect it will have).

If you read some literature on Stun guns you will find it even states that certain determined individuals (the same as with OC) with certain types of physiology will not be as affected by the Stun Gun (same with OC) and may push through and still attack you.

At this point you better know how to grapple... now if you are someone who can not do so, or do not have the physical capabilities (ie; handicapped, small male or female) then you may have to resort to Deadly Force. Keep in mind this has been a debate regarding female or handicapped officers in Law Enforcement (the arguement has been against female officers who do not have the physical capabilities of handling the average aggressor. They would have to resort to deadly force more quickly than their male counterparts thus increasing the liability of their respective agencies).

There are tons of legal cases and I would consult local case law (if possible)... note that not all prosecutors or law enforcement individuals may know what they are talking about so make sure you triple check any information you get from any source.

While I am a fan of the "it is better to be tried by 12 and carried by 6" saying, it is usually quoted by someone who has NOT had their life torn apart by legal fees and media attention in a use of force situation. While it is great if the city and state will foot the attorney costs, it is not so great when you have to do it yourself. I'm sure you are familiar with the infamous bank robber in CA? Well, several of those officers are now being sued for not rendering aid fast enough to the dying perpatrators ... and from what I have heard they City is not paying the legal fees which has pretty much bankrupted the officers.

--- End Opinion D & E ---

F.) "When to Retreat" - Finally, when do you draw the line and pull yourself and your team out of a dangerous situation. I've seen the story of the "motel room full of drug smugglers with assault weapons, etc.", but that seems a bit extreme. A more down to earth example, perhaps?

--- Begin Opinion F ---

You draw the line when you personally feel it isn't worth the Legal or Physical risks.

Of course you may not realize it until it's too late. That is why it is important to research your skip, conduct reconnasance (sp?) on locations, etc. Make smart choices (ie; don't go running into dark unlit areas without the proper equipment or backup unless you feel like taking on that risk). I'm sure a lot of bondsmen and agents sitting in jail (or dead) probably are now thinking "damn, I didn't expect this to happen".

--- End Opinion F ---

G.) "Calling it Quits" - So say you've got a skip that for whatever reason, you are unable or unwilling to apprehend. He's either left the country, he's armed and protected by a small army of other armed individuals and it's not worth the risk, or whatever. What happens then? I've heard references to "just pay the forfeiture and have done with it", but I don't know what that means. I assume it's a fee you have to pay if you fail to bring in a skip that you've been assigned to.

--- Begin Opinion G ---

The forfeiture is what the bondsman (or his surety company) pays the court for the failure of the skip to appear. If you are just an agent you won't have any forfeitures to pay. If you are a bondsman that amount will depend on law in the state of operation as well as if the bondsman has a contract with an insurance (surety) company to cover the forfeiture.

In addition, if you are a bondsman, it will depend on if you are able to get the bond "exonorated". Now that topic is best spoken on by the Bondsmen in this forum... there are several here who have succesfully had bonds exonorated and could go into detail better than I.

--- End Opinion G ---


Well, I hope I was able to answer some of your questions to the best of my ability.

_________________
-The Solution-
Indiana Agency #: PI20700211
Indiana Notary Public - Exp: 12/20/13

"Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong. That is your oath."
- Kingdom of Heaven

Thanks so much, bishopp. Very informative.

Good job, bishopp!!! I commend you for your patience (send me some, please).

_________________
Lance Allen Wilkinson
Recoveries by L.A.W.
Serving since 1984
“What is sought is found... what is overlooked escapes” (Oedipus Rex)

Damn Don! I agree with Lance, I could not have done that nice of a job explaining the way you did. I do not have the typing skills and patience.

Lol, thanks guys, but I think I left a lot of stuff out. It was becoming long winded and I was in danger of rambling more than I usually do LOL.

_________________
-The Solution-
Indiana Agency #: PI20700211
Indiana Notary Public - Exp: 12/20/13

"Be without fear in the face of your enemies. Be brave and upright that God may love thee. Speak the truth always, even if it leads to your death. Safeguard the helpless and do no wrong. That is your oath."
- Kingdom of Heaven