Stealing From Ourselves!

This topic has been a burr under my saddle for some time and now I am finally venting. Please..I am not trying to personally offend any of my FRN members. Now my pet peeve is that in North Carolina like other states bondsman have a bond premium/fee that they can charge the defendants to post their bond.(Apologize, not meaning to talk down here).

In North Carolina the max premium that can be charged is 15%....Now folks..please correct me if I am wrong..but we have a captive audience..So why in the hell are there bondsmen that are charging 5%,3% or sometimes 0%.. This is the most moronic business practice I have ever seen. If idiots like this think they are hurting the rest of us they are surely mistaken because collecting 3% or 5% down it wont take long before a few forfeitures will close those doors for good....Opinions anyone?

Thanks,

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Robert J Brown

Bail Bondsman
NPN: 17113240
Holmes Bail Bonding
Johnston County, NC
(919) 376.6661

I love it when folks write themselves outta business.

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Do not consider anything for your interest which makes you break your word, quit your modesty, or inclines you to any practice which will not bear the light, or look the world in the face .... Marcus Antonius

I AM Some Folks "KARMA" and A MODERATOR @ FRN

Just ten years ago, 15% percent was collected on almost all bonds in North Carolina. Financing was almost unheard of, at least in the areas I work, which includes half the state. Some would charge 10% down and finance the balance on very large bonds however.

Now, getting 15% bond premium on almost any bond is unheard of. Most will take a percentage of the bond premium, say 3 to 6 percent and finance the rest. If they don't pay, back to jail they go. (sometimes)

While there is nothing illegal about this, it seems to me, that one day soon these folks will finance their way out of business.

In my opinion, these folks are aiding in our demise, yet they continue and some even brag about the amount of bonds they've written. Hell, a robot can write that kind of business.

I'll continue collecting 15% and 10 percent on large bonds and when I'm run out of business by the very ones that proclaim to care about this business I can look back and say, I did my best, I didn't play that game and had no hand in trying to undercut my fellow bondsman.

I hope that the laws will change in NC at some point requiring a minimum of 10% down on all bonds.

On the flipside of that coin, I also provide recovery services for those bondsman that can and will undercut us, all the while knowing that if a defendant runs they aren't capable of re-arresting them. In fact, most wait in hopes of law enforcement arresting them AGAIN!!

Yeah, keep getting your 5 percent down until you, or the company you work for writes that one large bond that FTA's and you, or in most cases your boss has to pay up and there isn't enough money to pay up. I'll be here and just maybe pick your guy up. Then again, maybe I'll just watch you go out of business.

I am aware that some states have it much worse than we in NC, but it is getting out of control here also.

Bill

On a side note: The first company (that I know of) in NC to start this was "Big Daddy's Bail Bonds". Now there are other company's called this but this guy is out of business. He advertised 0 down and he meant it. Ole Big Daddy. had a drug and drinkin problem that landed him in big time trouble. Another company posted his bail for a small percentage and Big Daddy FTA. I re-arrested him in a state I can't recall. I wouldn't have mentioned the re-arrest but I absolutely loved watching KARMA in action. BTW, he was living in a shed behind his sisters house.

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Bill Williams
Bail Agent
Eagle Bonding Services
Asheville NC 28804
828-777-8667
Lic # NC10013561
Lic # TN 2033018

Never be haughty to the humble
or humble to the haughty - Jefferson Davis

The same occurs here in Miami..

Although the legal premium to be collected on any State Bond is 10% and Federal Bonds 15% ..

We have companies here charging 5% .. why you ask .. ?

Well this is what I come to figure out..

If an agent brings a bond to this company owner he will be paying this Agent 5 pts for the bond.

If the owner gets the call direct .. why not just charge what he would pay the agent bringing him the bond since that is what the BB Company owner would make anyways..(before payout to the Insurance Co and BUF)....and cut out the other Bail Bond Companies from the get go.. they undercut others charging the legal 10% up front to get something which is better than nothing..

Now factor in the problems and payouts..

You do a $5000 Bond for $250 premium instead of the legal $500.

(Lets say your points to the Insurance are 1 and 1 )

1) You Pay the Agent to go Execute this bond.. = $100

now you are at $150 ..

2) 1 Point to the Insurance Co.

3) 1 Point to your BUF

now lets say for worse case senario ..

Your deft misses court..

Now you have to go find this guy.. he isnt answering the cell cause its disconnected.. he doesnt live at the address any longer and moved according to neighbors..

4) $ now spent for Skip Tracing

now ya have to pay some Agent(s) to go try and find him and pick him up ..

60 days are ticking away ..

The agents can not find the defendant...

The Indemnitor is no longer at the number you have on file .. or living at his/her address either..

You pay an Attorney to File a Motion to try and get you off the bond..

You just bought yourself a $5000 Headache for little to no money...

Now to pay these agents to try and do the pickup, you are probably looking at $500 .. but here in Miami agents will do welfare pickups for todays lunch tab at McDonalds and charge stupid low rates that I wouldnt even get off my couch for.. never the less the BB owner is almost back to $0, if not in the Negative now for a $5000 Bond they did for $250 (5% less than the normal / legal rate)..

All I have to say about this is .. this wouldnt hurt possibly if you do some serious volume and the Discharges far Outweight the Forfeitures.. but it is a gamble and I do not gamble. Also why I would NEVER own my own Bail Bond Business. Much more money to be made as an Agent just executing and wayyyyy less stress of Forfeitures .. Bills to maintain, office rent.. Taxes.. Agents to pay ..etc..

These companies that charge less than the legal premium required by law are desparate and dont let their work ethics bother you. They are the lowest of the low and get what they deserve in the end. They may take half up front and do payment plans..? and if the case closes and they didnt get paid .. oh well say la vee.. this doesnt sit well with me. I WILL NOT CHASE MY MONEY. Either I get the FULL 10% up front or go call someone else. If you dont have the 10% today .. you will not have it tomorrow since you will probably avoid answering the phone or have excuse after excuse they are waiting to get paid or needed to pay a bill and will get you paid next week..no way Jose.. I dont play that "I ll gladly pay you Wednesday for a Burger today Scam"

You keep doing what you do the right way .. and if someone says to you they can get the bond done for cheaper .. then tell them " They why did you call me ? .. and Have a great day!" and politely hang up the phone and sit back and laugh.

What I do with calls like this.. is .. I take the Defendant's Name ..and look up the Case # I have a spiral notebook I write these absurd low ball bail quotes for premium in .. when I am bored I look up these cases later that month 1) to see which company low balled the bond premium. 2) to watch when the defendant fails to appear.. and the nice B/W listed in the case docket..3) to see that final line in the court docket is "Estreature Paid by Surety".

Then I go have a cold beer and giggle my butt off.

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JEFF P.
Limited Surety Agent (FL) - License # P_2O8124_
Private Investigator (FL) - License # C_27OOO33_
NABBI Member



"Surprise Sex is the Best Thing to Wake up to, UNLESS, You are in Jail... "

Mercy.... I must have really hit a nerve here with this topic...lol

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Robert J Brown

Bail Bondsman
NPN: 17113240
Holmes Bail Bonding
Johnston County, NC
(919) 376.6661

10% in Virginia. Financing is rampant...

But here is what is happening here.... and I think in many other states also...

DCJS sets the 10% fee and it is solid, not to waver or reduce... period.

Financing is another thing but what a lot are doing is ....

5% down and finance the rest is what they are advertizing but 5% period is what happens more than not....

I spent 3 days in California last October and was introduced to a system that gets sometimes as little as 1% with nothing else paid at all..... their contention is............. 1% is better than nothing??? Sometimes the bondsman will spring the defendant for NOTHING and try and collect after the fact or lock the defendant back up.... HOW CAN ANY OF US COMPETE WITH THAT???

Well, I finance nothing below $5000 and then I will get 65% and the balance in 30 days... and I can tell you that if they don't pay... I will find a reason to put them back in jail.... the problem is.... "nonpayment" is not a violation of bond conditions in the eyes of the courts... and they frown heavily on this practice so you better have some other reason for violating the bond.

I have a competitor that charges 5% and hardly ever gets the rest.... when the defendants tell me about it... I tell them it is illegal but hey............ it makes no difference to them... only the bondsman... I and my daughter lose bonds all the time because we will not submit to this practice.....

There is no solid answer for this activity.... as long as DCJS or the regulatory agencies let it go on... it will continue unchanged. All we can do is stand up to our own character and ethics and try to remain honest in our practices....

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Bill Marx, Sr.
"FREE STATE BAIL BONDS"
"FREE STATE INVESTIGATIONS"
DCJS: 99-176979
Cell: 434-294-0222

"Endeavor to Persevere" "Lone Watie"

"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that , comes from bad judgment" "Will Rogers"

I think Indiana is the only state that requires the bail agent to collect the full premium up front.

What will eventually happen is as more cases such like the New Jersey one Jason just posted or the one out of Washington State 3 years ago where a defendant got out on a $100K+ bond with little down and essentially no collateral and then went out and killed 4 police officers, the states will step in and either impose strict regulations or ban private surety bail altogether.

Maybe not in the very near future, but if you are planning on staying in this business for another 20 or 30 years, good luck.

You may be onto something here. However, no bondsman should ever let a state try and ban private bail. But they should also have a strong and ethical organization with a strong lobbying power, but also one that polices itself against unethical bondsman so that there is no need for governmental intrusion Afterall, You only get what you put into it.

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Robert J Brown

Bail Bondsman
NPN: 17113240
Holmes Bail Bonding
Johnston County, NC
(919) 376.6661

Suffice it to say we all face the same problems of new people coming into this business that failed elementary math skills. If you lose money on each bond, you cannot make it up in volume. Sometimes we are forced to compete or decide nit to. I will compare net profit running a tight operation to a loose volume writing business any day of the week. I am not impressed with the Mercedes or the SUV rolling on 24's. In fact it attracts negative attention to our industry.

Scott

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R.E. "Scott" MacLean III

"Leaders are like Eagles, you never see them in a flock, but one at a time"

Chesapeake Group Investigations, Inc.
Chesapeake Bail Bonds
877-574-0500
301-392-1100 (fax)
301-392-1900 (Office)

Amen Brother!

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Robert J Brown

Bail Bondsman
NPN: 17113240
Holmes Bail Bonding
Johnston County, NC
(919) 376.6661