Shots fired during attempted Lake Stevens bail bond arrest

The only opinion I can legally support is how my state allegedly sees things. You can use equal force in defense, but you can't instigate an offensive force. The dollar signs of a defendant running from you don't equate to the charges you face by crossinng the line to stop them. LE can't shoot somebody in the back for running from them, and neither can we. If I am faced with a threat, I will respond as I feel necessary. If somebody runs away, it may suck, I may lose money or have to pay a bond if I can't legally apprehend them, but I won't shoot them or at them or the vehicle they are in. My doing so does not comply with my state laws.

As I stated in a previous post, a fellow BEA had serious legal issues for firing at the tire of a vehicle that was deliberatly trying to run him down. Imagine the problems if he had instead fired at the driver. We are in a no-win situation no matter how legally or illegally we try to work. Most of us try to do our best to do what is right and legal, but the ones who don't negate everything we do. There are issues with power and pride between us and LEO's, so they are mostly against us. All we can do is to keep fighting for our rights, and prove that those of us who do things right are just as against those who don't as anyone in the legal system is. Hopefully the good ones will win.

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Kathy Blackshear
Blackshear Investigations
Blackshear Bail Bonds
Sales Associate, Prepaid Legal Services, Inc.
Walsenburg, CO

Proud Member of the AB Reject Club

I agree Kathy & Luvonda. My first thought was, ok, he didn't have a badge with him?, did HE write the bond or meet this person prior in their office when writing the bond?, was there a previous connection where she would know this guy. I've made many apprehensions by spotting an actor by chance and didn't have time to call LEO before the rearrest. In NJ it is not manditory to call in first, it is a professional courtesy although some PD's have set their own imaginary set of rules & laws and we most certainly call in or appear in person which is a requirement in some towns as to stay in check with all involved. I share Josh's concern as to the preservation of our industry in Washington state, for as you know, NJ has had it's fair share of mishaps and record breaking negative news over the last few years. Even with this bondsmans past record, which was stated as clerical, it seems to me there are too many unanswered questions here with LEO seeming to side with the pursued. I look forward to the seeing the outcome of this matter.

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Yak .... H.B.I.C.
Riverside Enforcement
Hackensack NJ 07601
Ph. (201) 538 - 2947
Fax (201) 342 - 5405

I agree with Yak and Kathy and share Josh's concerns, statewide and nationwide. I did not understand the comment about
the fugitive having warrants but that was not enough for the police to pursue her? They wanted to talk to her...how about locking up a fleeing felon? Who is on who's side here? I never condone illegal activity or defend an indefensible position. I believe that if Bail Bonds were eliminated in the private sector, all hell would break loose in the legal system. The very people that they are sworn to protect would be left to fend for themselves. Any bets on who would get punished for taking the law into their own hands as a result of the failure to act or respond on the part of law enforcement?

Just Rambling...

Scott

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R.E. "Scott" MacLean III

"Leaders are like Eagles, you never see them in a flock, but one at a time"

Chesapeake Group Investigations, Inc.
Chesapeake Bail Bonds
877-574-0500
301-392-1100 (fax)
301-392-1900 (Office)

In Washington you can be an independant recovery agent with no bail agent license and you contract directly with the bail bond company. If you are a bail agent, you have to get a recovery endorsement in order to engage in recovery activities. So the recovery side of the industry is regulated as a seperate licensed activity within the bail bond industry. He had his bail agent license revoked but was able to retain his license as a recovery agent because what he did to get revoked was unrelated to his recovery activities. Obviously something that we will be working on next legislative session. My personal position is that if you get one revoked, you shouldn't be able to opperate in either field, but the laws are still new so we will have to work on that one.

Granted that by State law he can hold one without the other. My question is . . .So can people just driving down the street see someone that they know has a warrant, grab them, and go collect the bounty? (of course they would have to a lic. BEA )

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Do not consider anything for your interest which makes you break your word, quit your modesty, or inclines you to any practice which will not bear the light, or look the world in the face .... Marcus Antonius

I AM Some Folks "KARMA" and A MODERATOR @ FRN

To answer Caz's question, for Alabama, yes, a citizen's arrest is legal here. It is in our state code. No, you don't have to hold any kind of license to do it either.

If I see a news story about a crime, and I see the criminal say in a store, then I do have the right by state law to apprehend and detain that individual until law enforcement arrives. It does not address extradition issuesd, only detention issues.

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River City Associates
Decatur, Al. 35601

In washington there is of course citizen's arrest, but you would certainly be charged if you were compensated for it. they key is that there is a state-required contract that must be completed between the bail co and the licensed agent. so in answer to the question of just grabbing someone on the street and getting paid, doesn't work like that here.

This is why the industry is in need of "professional" people. I personally believe that if we in the industry hold ourselves up to a "higher" standard we will eventually see agents like this disappear. I agree with Kathy in the fact that I am responsible for my license and won't jeopardize my license for anyone. I am very careful with who I work with. Another one for do your homework.

LOL, I feel so special that Brian agreed to work with me .

Seriously though, it is very hard to find people who share the same good values and standards to work with. Those of us who try so hard to do things right are constantly confronted with those who only want to be cowboys, get publicity, their own TV show, or think they are or want to pretend they are LEO's.

The vast majority of my cases are closed with a nice phone call. They get reinstated, continued, or rebonded. A few more require more promises, thus making the person understand that if they don't comply, I will come after them. Another few require pretexting cos they just ain't going to cooperate and think I can't find them or they are safe. They just don't seem to get that when a BEA or LE shows up at their door why I didn't just pay their bond and let it go.

I have three sitting in my local jail right now that thought I would just pay off and let them go, or keep letting them slide. NOT!! One I had other BEA's pick up, and he is now warning everyone not to run on me. One I had out of state LE looking for, and he seemed surprised that they were and he got picked up. I got to do his transport, and I gladly told him that they were. DUH! Word of advice, if you know the defendant lives in another state, make sure the warrant is extraditable. If not do what you can to get it entered. The last, I had another BEA talking to him in the area he was going to on a good pretext. LE caught him, but that was just bad luck on my agent's part since he got picked up about the same time they were supposed to meet up.

LEO's can be your biggest ally or your biggest enemy. My 10K skip (the one I got permission from my Sheriff to transport) got picked up in NM because when I met with a State Policeman in NM, I had every piece of paperwork signed and in order to show him. He told me that the warrant wasn't in NCIC, and I made a phone call to my sheriff department and it was entered within minutes. He was impressed with my paperwork, demeanor, and ability to get the warrant entered. As I was showing him my papers and then on the phone with my sheriff dept getting the warrant entered, he remarked that "I had done this before." I laughing responded "A few times." I kept things light, but he saw that I was a professional. Eight days later, my defendant was apprehended by LEO in NM.

Required or not, we always contact LE. We tell them who we are after, where we are going, and whether we feel we need backup. If they offer, we always accept. LEO's often know as much or more about a person than we do, and their presence can glean more info and/or carry more weight. If they don't want to participate, we usually get a "drive-by" to check things out.

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Kathy Blackshear
Blackshear Investigations
Blackshear Bail Bonds
Sales Associate, Prepaid Legal Services, Inc.
Walsenburg, CO

Proud Member of the AB Reject Club

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/200806 ... /717111255

UPDATE!!! ............

Bail agent, Lake Stevens police to discuss shooting

The Lynnwood man will meet with police to review his failed arrest of a woman that ended in gunfire and her escape.

By Jackson Holtz and Krista J. Kapralos
Herald Writers

LAKE STEVENS -- Nathan Hingson is one of about 140 bail bond recovery agents operating statewide.

Similar to "Dog the Bounty Hunter," the reality TV star with the mullet and muscles, recovery agents in Washington are licensed to put fugitives in handcuffs, carry weapons and force their way into people's homes.

Hingson opened fire in a busy Lake Stevens convenience store parking lot Friday when he was trying to arrest a fugitive. Lake Stevens police are investigating the shooting.

They are scheduled to meet with Hingson on Wednesday, at the bail recovery agent's request, Lake Stevens Police Chief Randy Celori said Monday.

State officials on Monday also opened an investigating of the shooting.

Hingson was trying to detain a Lake Stevens woman, 25, who allegedly has missed court dates and is wanted on multiple misdemeanor arrest warrants carrying nearly $23,000 bail.

Hingson said the woman was in a pickup outside the store and he told her to stop. Instead, she started the truck. He punched out the driver's window. Then she tried to run him down, Hingson said. That's when he said he shot at the pickup to get her to stop. Police are still trying to piece together exactly what happened.

Hingson said he was trying to arrest the woman because she is a fugitive and he guaranteed a court that she would show up. If she fails to appear in court, he could be on the hook for entire bail amount.

Linda Braswell is president of the Professional Bail Agents of the United States. She said she has been a bail bonds agent for nearly 40 years, hunting fugitives in Florida. She has never fired her weapon.

"No one is worth me getting killed or me killing them," she said. "I'm not going to try to outrun or outshoot someone. I don't know any other legitimate bail agent that wants the liability that could be brought against us by the misuse of a firearm or any other weapon."

Hingson's attorney, Julian Denes of Everett, on Monday said his client has done nothing wrong.

"It has been indicated to me that in over 18 years of being a bail bondsman my client has never had to resort to shooting his gun," Denes wrote in an e-mail. "Further, he was in fear of his life, over a known criminal who has a warrant out for her arrest, when he discharged the weapon. He was clearly defending himself."

Although bail bond recovery agents arrest people and many are licensed to carry firearms, they do not have the same authority as police, nor are they governed by the same rules.

Typically people pay bail bond agents a fee to avoid sitting behind bars while they wait for their court date. The amount varies, but often is about 10 percent of the bail set by a judge.

Courts issue bail to defendants because of constitutional assumptions of innocence until somebody is proven guilty. Bail is intended to insure the defendant shows up in court.

The woman signed a contract with Bail Bond by Nate, Hingson's Lynnwood business, Hingson said.

The woman remained free Monday. Her legal troubles include allegations of driving with a suspended license, driving under the influence and making false statements to police.

Police don't believe the woman was injured Friday by the gunfire. Detectives want to interview her.

"We want to get the specifics on what happened during the incident and hear her version of the events," Celori said. Detectives aren't searching for the woman and will wait for her to get picked up or turn herself in.

It's against the law to discharge a firearm within Lake Stevens city limits, Celori said. Lake Stevens police have impounded Hingson's handgun as evidence.

Lake Stevens detectives also will gather evidence to forward to Snohomish County prosecutors to determine if Hingson was legally justified in using deadly force.

Anyone who shoots at someone else faces potential criminal charges, including illegal discharge of a weapon, assault or even attempted murder, Snohomish County deputy prosecutor Mark Roe said.

When a firearm is used, prosecutors must decide whether a person acted in self-defense, Roe said.

"Police, bail bondsmen, anyone -- everyone's conduct is looked at the same way," he said.

In his more than 20 years as a prosecutor, Roe said he hasn't encountered a similar case.

Hingson also is being investigated by the state Department of Licensing, the state agency that regulates the bail bond industry.

It's not the first time Hingson has had to answer questions from state officials.

In February 2007, the state alleged Hingson failed to keep adequate records, committed "material fraud" and failed to maintain a trust account for his business. His bail bond agency license was suspended and he was ordered to take accounting classes. Hingson said he and his wife were victims of a Las Vegas-based bail bond business that set them up.

The Las Vegas company, Bail Bonds America, sued Hingson and his wife in 2005. Among other things, the Nevada company alleged breach of contract, theft and fraud. In court papers, Hingson countered that he and his wife did nothing wrong. A Seattle police investigation in 2005 determined that Hingson and his wife did not commit fraud against the company, according to documents Hingson filed with the court. The lawsuit was dropped.

The state issues different bail bond licenses, some for operating a business, others for issuing bonds and a third for bounty hunters.

Shortly after Hingson's business license was suspended, he obtained a bail bond recovery license, the license to find and arrest "skips," people who have missed their court date.

In April 2007, Bail Bond by Nate was opened by Hingson's wife and a friend.

After the business started, state regulators received a complaint that Hingson may have been issuing bail bond contracts, despite his suspended bail bond agent license.

No evidence to support the complaint was found, said Brad Benfield, a Department of Licensing spokesman.

Bounty hunters can carry weapons, but they are governed by the same rules that apply to everybody else, Benfield said. They can only use firearms if there is an imminent threat to their life, or someone else's life.

Friday's incident, added to a fatal shooting by a bail bondsman last month in Pierce County and the legal troubles of TV's Duane "Dog" Chapman, reinforce a negative stereotype about the industry.

"This business conducts itself in a really professional manor and does a real service to the community," Mike Rocha said. He's an Everett-based recovery agent who's been working in the field for 25 years. "It's our responsibility to make sure (defendants) show up in court."

Herald writer Diana Hefley contributed to this report.

Reporter Jackson Holtz: 425-339-3437 or jholtz@heraldnet.com.

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Yak .... H.B.I.C.
Riverside Enforcement
Hackensack NJ 07601
Ph. (201) 538 - 2947
Fax (201) 342 - 5405