Is Bail Enforcement a good future reference?

I am very new on this forum and i am also new at bail/fugitive enforcement. I have been BEA for about 6months now, it is a very good job and i enjoy it very much. However, my Goal after i recieve my 4yr degree in Psychology and criminal justice, is to become a Federal agent. If that were to fail, then a NYC police detective would be my fallback, since im originally from NY. Now to get to the point, i had a couple of LEO that are friends of mine, tell me that bounty hunting is not a good reference source because we are not trust worthy individuals. Now Their reason for saying that was becuase we are not sworn into law enforcement or sworn into any kind of enforcement, so technically we are not required to follow the laws. Now i got offended by this, becuase i dont think alot of people even realize this industry and what it really is. Everytime i tell someone i am a bail/fugitive enforcement agent, they all say with a laugh... "oh your like dog the bounty hunter" To me Chappman* is not considered a professional. (no offense, this is just my opinion.) Now i guess my main question is, Is this going to be a good reference to help me become a F. Agent or police detective? Alot of my friends are just going to school for their degree and then go straight to the federal agent test, to become a F.agent, but i wanted to have the experience in arresting, tactical entry, undercover work, and investigations so by the time i received my degree i would have all that experience under my belt. Now i know there are alot of professionals on this forum, and im asking you guys what do you think?

There isn't 1 universal answer..too many variables. Different communities have different attitudes towards our industry.

A suggestion would be to stop telling people what you do. Instead, if possible, procure your PI license and simply fill out your employment apps as self employed private investigator.

Or, you could simply state that you were an independent contractor for various bail bond companies. Most law enforcement professionals do respect the need for the bail industry.

Last thought, if you have the opportunity to join a law enforcement agency now, then I would advise taking it. A solid paycheck, benefits, retirement, 20+ yr. job security, etc. At the end of your career, you could then start your own recovery team.

I'm assuming you are in your early 20's. Put in a 20 yr leo career, puts you retiring from the force in your early 40's. Still plenty of time for BEA work.

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River City Associates
Decatur, Al. 35601

There is no PI license in CO, Ruffin. In fact, there are no requirements whatsoever. If you say you are a PI, you are. All you gotta do is prove yourself enough to start getting work.

There is also no licensing for BE here. But, you do have to complete a 16 hour P.O.S.T. certification class and a fingerprint background check.

I have never heard anything positive about transitioning from BE into LE. It seems like it would be good experience, but we have so much more leeway and do things so much differently than LE, that most agencies feel that we can't adapt to the restrictions. With the background check they will do on you, you won't be able to hide the work, but I wouldn't play it up. Just my opinion and what I have heard from others who considered making the switch, you should get as far away from BE as you can as soon as possible. Consider it a temporary mistake in your career goal and play it that way. Hopefully you can still achieve your real objective.

Good luck!!

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Kathy Blackshear
Blackshear Investigations
Blackshear Bail Bonds
Sales Associate, Prepaid Legal Services, Inc.
Walsenburg, CO

Proud Member of the AB Reject Club

Thank you guys for your advice. The only reason i havent taken a LEO job right now is soley becuase of school, i know they offer the cadet program this year for the Denver P.D. but i am 21 yrs old, and i am just alittle too old for it, as far as im understood. I would really hate to have to quite bail enforcement since i really enjoy it. In a way we do things just like detectives do. So you guys think that BEA is just going to hurt me in the future more than help? I do understand the fact that our rules are much more different from LEO, but i ve been told both sides, that bounty hunting opens up other doors to the Law enforcement world, and ive been told the opposite. I mean we are bringing criminals to justice, most of my friends that are LEO just drive around waiting for calls all day and really have nothing going on. Especially in the county i live in which is jefferson county, the LEOs always tell me they wish they could do what i do, becuase it makes them feel like they are actually doing a detailed job. You know investigating, fugitive apprehension, etc. That was my other reason for doing this job on the side and then after my degree moving to a detailed job positon. Thank you guys for your help.
(sorry for the gramar errors english isnt my specialty)

Well here is something else for you to consider...I was kind of hoping other's would mention it.

Our industry as we know it is on the verge of extinction. We are so close to being regulated out of business it isn't funny. It has been projected that our entire industy, as we know it, will be non existent within the next 10 yrs.

Invest your time wisely. There are few 20 yr career paths left now. Businesses come n go, mergers, shut downs etc. But law enforcement is guaranteed job security.

You can earn your way to investigator rank, go to leo schools for interviewing, ep training, tactical driving, join a swat team..I mean you can use a pd to supply you with all of the adrenaline rush you want.

I really don't understand this dilemma between bea and leo. I can't speak for other's, but I spend app. 80% of my time at a desk....computer searches, telephone calls, etc. I don't like wasting my time or resources...gas, wear n tear on my vehicle, being on wild goose chases.
I prefer to nail down my subject's location from the office, then when I do go out, it is to my fugitive's exact location.

Obviously, very seldom does it ever pan out that way....but that's the way I try to make it happen.

To me there isn't any contest.....be a cop first, put your 20 in, get the benefits and pension, then do bea work....it's a solid plan and you can provide for your family on it.

Also, you have to examine the income potential.... cops, on average, start out around $24k t0 $50 k a year, depeding on what part of the country you are in. Most of us do not earn that much on recovery work alone.

Very few BEA's make it to the national insurance companies who write the million dollar bonds. It's like the odds of a kid making the NBA....1 in a million. So if you have any goal of owning a house, getting married, raising a family ($100k/child now for 18 years), you wont achieve any of those as a BEA only.

Another thing to consider: As a cop, if you get injured druing the line of duty, you are taken care of for the rest of your life. Have you given any thought as to what you would do should you be injured as a BEA ?

Almost a year ago...Feb 14th, I was involved in a near fatal car wreck. totaled my truck out. It wasn't my fault, but that's another story. My point here, is that while dealing with all of the injuries, lawyers, etc I have had an extremely difficult time financially this year (2007) due to being too injured to work. If it had not been for friends helping me out, I don't know how I would have survived.

I will recieve a fairly large settlement once the case is settled...but the interim has been extremely rough. Are you prepared for such an event ?

I beg you to seriously think your career path out...go with being safe and steady, and forget about the "adventure"... it's like sex...it's all that while it happens, but once it's over...there's nothing.

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River City Associates
Decatur, Al. 35601

My opinion for what it's worth. Great points from everyone. As to the LEO's accepting BE as a stepping stone, most understand the need for the bail system yet most have encountered a bounty hunter with less than stellar professionalism, hence the lack of respect. You can certainly do you part to gain the respect of those you personally encounter but will likely never change the persona on a natl level.

To some extent there is a level of jealousy on the LEO's part of us. I have a good number of friends the are agents and officers and have heard this numerous times. I train my K9 with a good friend that is an explosive detection K9 handler for the FBI and we discuss this on occasion. For the most part, we as BEA's, get to set our own schedules, pick and choose which cases we work on at any given time, don't really have a superior to answer to, certainly don't have the politics involved, aren't to constrained by jurisdictional issues, don't have to spend years doing traffic stops prior to being in a investigative capacity and can theoretically make 2, 3, 4+ times the money that they do. They on the other hand have the benefits mentioned by Mr. Blaylock in the previous postings. I personally would never trade with my FBI friends.

An example of a lack of acknowledgment of BEA's is in the State of Maryland is the PI license. In individual that writes speeding tickets and directs traffic as a police officer for 5 years in eligible for a PI license, yet an individual that investigates fugitive cases on a daily basis and ultimately has a couple hundred apprehensions more than that same officer, is completely disregarded and ineligible to obtain a PI license.

I think the path to the feds is a great one. Do the things you can now to learn tactics, etc. Just be prepared to change them all when you get to Quantico, FLETC or wherever.

The schooling is by far the most important. Even though I don't believe I have ever used my college to get anywhere I still deem it crucial, especially if one wants to work at the federal level. An ex-girlfriend of mine is an FBI agent, and in her particular class, there was not one person without a masters degree.

Food for thought anyway.......

BEA experience will likely hurt your chances of getting hired as a LEO because you will be lumped into the bounty hunter catagory, many law enforcement agencies have had at least a few negative experiences with BEA's, the good experiences seem to be less memorable for some reason.

I always used the term "Insurance Investigator" when describing my BEA occupation, when quized about exactly what I did I emphasised the investigative work and completely down played the apprehension aspect of the work and talked about the times where I located the insurance companies "wayward customer" and passed the information on to the police so they could make the arrest, I kept my apprehension adventures to myself, this has worked out well for me.

I know a Deputy U.S. Marshal that worked as a BEA before getting hired by the Marshal's, he never mentioned his "BEA hobby" on the application but did bring his BEA experience to the job, quickly impressing his superiors with his ability to track down fugitives.

BEA work is good for gaining experience but does not do much for your resume.

I have read all of the responses and agree with all of them. I do , however wish to address the part of their opinion stating we don't have to follow rules etc. We are all bound by the same statutes. They can apprehend and hold someone without charging them for 48 hours with no repercussions, we do that and it is kidnapping.

They get in a jamb, they call for backup, if we are in the same situation, we either stand down or think out of the box to accomplish our task. I too have numerous associates in multiple levels of law enforcement, who have differing opinions about our craft. These opinions are not unlike our own about them. We have all had great respect and assistance from some as well as complete disrespect and threats of arrest from others. Neither group wishes to be judged by the exceptions to the status quo. We have all helped each other, though few would choose to admit it.

Our craft was covert by nature and way under the radar until recent television shows. As a result, our craft is harder to ply as our defendants watch these shows too, learning how we ply our craft. The people often displayed on these shows are not always representative of our industry, but the fans of these shows do not comprehend that.

Money can be made in this craft if you are singularly focused and self disciplined. It is difficult to find an associate with the same drive and competency. If you do, you are golden! There is also a high burnout rate. I have been doing recoveries since the late 80's and bail bonds since 1999. There are times when I just don't feel like getting up after another 3 hour slumber and go again. The adrenaline rush just isn't there anymore. The fear still is, and when that goes, so do I. As this business continues to shrink, so does the solvency of your bondsman. In the last two years, I have heard more requests for discounts because they didn't collect all of the money, business is slow, my indemnitor flaked out and there is nothing to go after etc etc etc. However the risk is the same or worse. I have seen younger kids with guns then ever before, and in neighborhoods never known for that previously.

Conclusion...Go with LEO or the Feds if you have the opportunity. Follow the advise proffered here, the Insurance Investigator or Surety Investigator is more than sufficient. Nobody cares about the details of apprehensions and if you offer them, they won't believe it anyway. Few people but those that have plied this craft know how strange, dangerous, humorous, ridiculous and ignorant t can be.

Best of luck,

Scott

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R.E. "Scott" MacLean III

"Leaders are like Eagles, you never see them in a flock, but one at a time"

Chesapeake Group Investigations, Inc.
Chesapeake Bail Bonds
877-574-0500
301-392-1100 (fax)
301-392-1900 (Office)

I was considering addressing those somewhat questionable remarks regarding not being held accountable by state laws or the government.

Perhaps Md. is different and they show wider latitude in BEA operations than in other places, I don't know.

Here is what I do know. In several states our industry is heavily regulated and watched with extreme prejudice by various components of the criminal justice system and governmental agencies. I feel like they are like vultures, slowly pciking away at our dying corpse (our industry).

Soon there wont be anything left, which is what some of them want.

Another esteemed colleague of ours here offered sound advice: Anytime any of us have any kind of interaction with law enforcement, government represenatives, court clerks, judges, DA's, etc. It is absolutely imperative that we make the most positive and professional impression we can.

You never kow when you will have to deal with those exact same people again, nor do you know when you may need a reference from them.

Not tooting my own horn here, because I know other's on this board have done the same thing, but here is an example of the power of an impression. Several times in the last 2 year's judges had ordered final forfeiture's on my client's. One of the services I provide my client's is the art of writing/preparing/submitting legal court motions for time extensions and/or exonerations.

At my client's request, I have appeared before a judge/magistrate and testified openly on behalf of my client explaining why the motion should be granted. On the instance's where I have appeared in person, to date, I have never had a motion denied. Now, some I have merely submitted by letter have been.

In most cases, I have never been before that particular judge before. I dress like a lawyer, I carry a briefcase armed with all of the legal statutes, codes, prior case precedent's, etc. I stand squarely and confidently before the judge and make a clear, definitive statement, albeit brief, as to the court's right to grant the motion. I give them the reasons why they should do it, not why they shouldn't.

In almost every instance, someone from the courthouse has made the comment that they have never seen the judge do that before.

1 last constant reminder. This industry really isn't about re-apprehending the defendant. It is about exonerating your client (bondsperson) from thier bonds thereby saving them money. If I can accomplish a "chairborne" bond exoneration instead of creating more liability for everyone by physically searching for the defendant, you better believe I will exercise that option 1st.

As 1 of my instructor's in California is fond of saying, "Work smarter, not harder".

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River City Associates
Decatur, Al. 35601

I noticed in the last couple postings references to BEA's not as accountable to regs, etc, and MD in particular. I went back and reread my post and don't see where I said anything like that, but if I gave that impression regarding my list of benefits, I certainly didn't mean for it to come across as such.