August 31, 2004

Carine,

As I began to read your post, I was, at first, impressed by your shift in gears to the exent that your argument flowed in a realtively well-organized series of thoughts, but then the "worm" thing formed a segue that, for all intents and ostensible purposes, did nothing more than hurt your position.

If you should feel it necessary to resort to name calling then at least suffice your insult by some sort of supportive fact or historical comparator for the sake of the argument.

For example, one could easily argue that another's position bears no validity when the argument is laced with unfounded insults, thus any person utilizing insults as argumentative support is nothing more than a dilatante with a propensity for impetuous, childish outbursts.

It does no service to make blanket statements concerning all BEAs, in my opinion.

Mr. Chapman's TV show demonstrates that he is out there doing the job, and, so far, his activities have been within the norm notwithstanding his choking of a handcuffed, compliant skip for presentation to Leland, using a vehicle as safety to watch his Son get attacked on the ground by two people, expressing outward fear of working at night, and engaging various people in unwarranted verbal altercations.

Frankly speaking, Mr. Chapman's show is fraught with excellent training material of what not to do, and it is my sincere hope that those in power do not run with easily accesible footage for the purpose of imposing federal laws that would subject all of us to U.S.C. 1983 (1982).

At any rate, I look forward to your continued particpation on this forum.

Rex

CARINE YOU AS THE GENERAL VIEWING PUBLIC ARE NOT SCHOOLED IN WHAT BAIL ENFORCEMENT IS ALL ABOUT-SO HERE IS THE SHORT COURSE(NO INSULT IS INTENDED- CA-CA PUTS HIMSELF OUT AS A BOUNTY HUNTER THAT IS AN INSULT TO PRO BEAS EVERYWHERE I WIIL ATTEMPT TO EXPLAIN)
WE AS A GROUP PUTS HUNDREDS OF HOURS IN TRAINING TO DO IT RIGHT-WE PRACTISE TACTICS-WE DRILL IN PROCEDURES- WE LEARN LAWS.WE DO EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO AVOID VIOLENCE IN OUR ARRESTS-I AM A PAST PARAMEDIC(I STILL STAY CURRENT ON EMERGENCY MEDICAL PROCEDURES)MY TEAM USES RULES OF ENGAGEMENT-WE ONLY HUNT PEOPLE WE HAVE LEGAL AUTHORIZATION FOR.WE ALSO ASSIST MANY LOCAL STATE AND FEDERAL AGENCIES AND GET ASSISTANCE IN RETURN.YES WE HAVE THE TOOLS TO BE LETHAL IF NEEDED- WE HAVE LOST BEAS AVOIDING THAT.WE DO NOT CHOKE CUFFED PRISONERS.WE DO NOT STAND AND ARGUE WITH PEOPLE-WE PROTECT EACH OTHER AND THE GENERAL PUBLIC-WE HIT AN ADDRESS WITH OVER WHELMING FORCE SECURE OUR SKIP AND LEAVE THE AREA QUICKLY AND QUIETLY AS POSSIBLE SO AS NOT TO CREATE A SCENE OR EMBARASS THE SKIP-WE DO TREAT OUR SKIPS LIKE PEOPLE WE DO NOT PREACH OR PRETEND TO BEFRIEND OUR SKIPS-WE WORK WITHIN THE LAW-I HAVE MADE OVER 1500 ARRESTS BOTH AS A POLICE OFFICER- DETECTIVE AND A PRO BEA- I HAVE TAKEN LIFE 6 TIMES-I HAVE BEEN SHOT AT HIT BY A CAR BITEN KICKED PUNCHED STABBED AT SPIT ON ETC.I HAVE NEVER ABUSED A PRISONER NO MATTER WHAT THE PROVOCATION-I DO NOT CLAIM TO BE LAW ENFORCEMENT NOR DOES ANY OF MY TEAM(IF THEY DID THEY WOULD BE HISTORY)EVERY ARREST WE MAKE USES TACTICS TO HELP MAKE IF SAFE FOR US AND THE SKIP-WE TRAIN AT LEAST 4 HOURS PER WEEK -WE FOLLOW THE LAW.I BACK UP MY PEOPLE AND WOULD NEVER LEAVE THEM HANGING OUT TO DRY YELLING COVER UP-MY TEAM ARE PROS -DU-DU TEAM IS AT BEST AMATURES AND POSES A THREAT TO BOTH THEMSELVES AND THE PUBLIC AT LARGE.HE STAINS THE NAME BEA EVERYTIME HIS SHOW AIRS-THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWWEN BEA AND DU-DU- IF YOU ARE IN NEW ENGLAND GIVE ME A CALL GO ON A RIDE ALONG THAN TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK-I GIVE DU-DU ALOT OF CREDIT FOR SEEING HOW HE RAISES HIS FAMILY AND HOW HE TAKES CARE OF THEM .BUT AS FAR AS BEA GOES HE IS WRONG AND DOES WRONG EVERYTIME-HE IS VERY LUCKY THE CRIMINALS IN HIS AREA ARE DECENT PEOPLE IF HE WORKED WHERE I HAVE HIS HOME OR HIS TEAMS HOME WOULD BE A 5FOOT BY 8FOOT PLOT OF GROUND WITH SIX FOOT OF DIRT ON TOP.I CHALLENGE DU-DU TO A PUBLIC DISPLAY OF HIS ARREST HISTORY-I HAVE MINE DOES HE HAVE HIS?MAYBE 5000 OF HIS ARRESTS ARE JAYWALKING OR MAYBE LITTERING. HADLEY DORFMAN 603-493-3400

To Rex and Hgunner and all of you:

Carine is right about at least two things. The dislike (hatred in some cases) toward Mr. Chapman expressed by some of you seems to originate in jealousy, not in any rational reasoning. The second is that in one case in particular, the person expressing the hatred appears to be mentally ill, and that person is L.A.W. When one person goes that far out of his way to hurt someone else, after a certain point, it is sick, and yes, probably illegal, too. It probably could be prosecuted as stalking.

The difference in your style of bounty hunting and Mr. Chapmans comes from the fact that he learned by experience, on the street, and you learned in a school. Perhaps he could benifit from a school, but my guess is that you could probably learn a few things from him, too.

Reading back over posts on this board, I have seen several lies told about Mr. Chapman. One is that he choked a skip. I saw that episode, and he had the person in a wrestling chin lock. It does not choke the person, and you could see that his arm was loosely under the man's chin. I can't believe that anyone on this board could really be dumb enough to think Chapman was choking him. He then turned the man around to face the camera. Obviously, he was doing it because the director told him to do it.

Did it ever occur to any of you that he is doing a SHOW here, and much of what is done is at the request of the director(well, they don't CALL them directors on a reality show, but they are).


He does not carry a gun, so the outfit and the growls and insults at the skip are designed to intimidate. You don't have to do that, because you can carry guns. When he gets the skip handcuffed, he then begings to try to comfort him, offers him a cigarette and advise, etc. Contrary to what some of you seem to think, there is not a damn thing wrong with that. In fact, I think it shows that Chapman has a soul, which is less than I can say for many of you.

Another thing. You keep saying that you work with law enforcement. You know very well that he is less and less able to work with law enforcement because in more and more states they will not work with him because he is not licensed. He can not be licensed, because he is an ex-felon. Shame on the ones of you who participated in the lobbying that is pushing Chapman and others like him into a situation wherein they cannnot legally work. I think many of you would like to see him in jail for trying to work, or on welfare.

For God's sake, if we want our ex-cons to go straight, we have to ALLOW them to go straight! We have to allow them to WORK! As long as their crime is not directly related to the work they want to do, the law should not allow them to be denied a license because they have a recorcd!
(There are exceptions, of course. People who have the urge to kill or rape should be kept locked up forever, and shouldn't be out anyway).

Chapman has been on the straight and narrow for TWENTY YEARS!! There should be provisions made to allow him to be licensed, and as for ther experience part of it, his twenty years of experience should be acceptable. The law should have provisions for people like him to be grandfathered in so he can work legally.

Was it L.A.W who said Dog was trying to pass himself off as a law enforcement agent because he said "law enforcement" while he was handcuffing a skip?? That is a pretty petty statement. Here is the guy, on national television in front of millions of people who know who he is. How could he be hoping to fool anyone??


And to the statements that "If he did it his way in the more dangerous areas he would be dead"(or words to that effect: But he was NOT in that dangerous area, or that situation. He was bringing in skips that he knew were just dope heads, that he could be pretty sure wouldn't fight back. And for them, he DID have overwhelming force. If he was in that more dangerous situation. he would probably be appropriately manned and prepared.

As for the situation of his having the kids outside, waving the branches, again, it was not a dangerous skip, he knew the guy, and the problem was just in getting him to come out of the house, not in his being dangerous. Besides, he was teaching them to be bounty hunters, so they have to go out with him.

You have blown up ever little detail to make it look many times more negative than it is. Obviously, the man is skilled, or he would not have become as well known as he has.

Oh, by the way, about Carine calling you worms--I am sure I could find several unjustified names you have called Mr. Chapman on this board. If you can't take it, don't dish it out!

God Bless you Dog, my son who has a record, says he knows that if you could make it back, he can too! Keep going, guy! We love you!!!

Thayer... I won't even dignify your lack of knowledge regarding bail enforcement with a reply.

As concerns Chapman... he continues to give the industry a bad name and portrays it in an ever-increasing negative fashion. The man is a criminal and should not be allowed in the bail industry in any fashion.

As for prosecuting for stalking... please do. I have truth and facts on my side. Stalking! Please! If unveiling the truth is stalking, so be it. I plead guilty and I'm damn proud of it. When one is in the public eye s/he cannot be heard to complain when another prints the truth in opposition to their lies.

After your display of blatant igorance to the situations, it is quite understandable why your son has a record... you probably do, too. I do believe you are associated with Carine... it is too obvious.

Have a quality day.

_________________
Lance Allen Wilkinson
Recoveries by L.A.W.
Serving since 1984
“What is sought is found... what is overlooked escapes” (Oedipus Rex)

Mr. Thayer,

I must first extend my appreciation for the time that you took to address your position in a relatively mature way, and I hope that you continue to contribute to this forum whether or not your ideals find a following.

It is my suggestion, however, that you would be better served to install something about your training and experience in your argument that would quantify your seemingly ill-informed points.

For example, you marginalized Mr. Chapman's unjustified use of a quasi-rear naked choke hold on a HANDCUFFED, COMPLIANT and unsentenced prisoner. In point of fact, the man appeared to have a disruption in air and blood supply as evidenced by the strained and discolored presentation of his face. To offer an argument that some obscure director made him do it for the cameras, the audience and is therefore justified is both outrageous and betrays your lack of working knowledge not just in bail enforcement but in any professions having to do with handcuffing.

Another betrayal of your ignorance is that you purport to know what Mr. Chapman is thinking without offering any clue as to how you arrived at your paranormal conclusions. If you're a registered psychic then that would be another example of why your position should carry any weight.

"...because he knew the guy..." In case you haven't been keeping up on current events Mr. Thayer, murders occur daily between people who know eachother, and there are documentaries on TV right now that include kids killing their parents, husbands killing their wives and business associates killing their partners!

"...because he knew the guy...?" I'm befuddled by this statement in support of FELONIOUSLY exposing children to a hazardous situation. That's right Mr. Thayer. It is a felony to endanger children by driving with them intoxicated, having them around dangerous drugs such as meth-labs, and even having them assist in an arrest.

"...because he knew the guy...?" People I knew have pulled knives, guns, and tried to take my gun during what you would call a routine bail arrest. Of course if you had any background in bail arrests then you would know that there is no such thing as routine, Mr. Thayer.

It is clear from you post that you lack even the most fundamental knowledge of the trade, which is in support of L.A.W.'s argument.

Professional BEAs are concerned that Mr. Chapman's activities will damage the trade either in public image or by forming the catalyst to burdensome legislation. Your perception that it is okay to choke helpless arrestees if that's what the director wants, utilize children in dangerous situations, and forget that someone was ever a felon is obviously drawn from a reality TV show; thus, you have proven L.A.W.'s point, in my opinion. You are a prime example of the crux of the argument in favor of BEAs who don't agree with Mr. Chapman's way of doing things.

Stalking? Mr. Thayer, to subscribe to your pro-felon notions is to subscribe to the absurd position that a citizen who report illegal activity is to be faulted. If your ideals were ever to find favor in main-stream thinking then crimes would never be reported lest the reporting party would be found guilty of some imaginary crime. For example, Mr. Chapman ILLEGALLY entered California to conduct a bail enforcement investigation concerning Andrew Luster. I get the impression that you would have us ignore that fact out of some twisted sense of who knows what.

In closing, you have been faced with counter-points that will probably incite you to fall-back on name calling should you not bear the experience or knowledge of the trade to offer rebuttal based on training and--let me be redundant here--experience.

Rex

There is no doubt that Thayer is an associate of Carine. They post from the same area of the country and neither one offers their credentials.

I believe it is past time this forum was returned to the pros only.

_________________
Lance Allen Wilkinson
Recoveries by L.A.W.
Serving since 1984
“What is sought is found... what is overlooked escapes” (Oedipus Rex)

Agreed, L.A.W.,

While cumbersome, it may be necessary to delete users who fail to complete their profiles at the time or within 24-hours of registering.

I frequent another forum where new users are required to provide their professional vocations to determine which area(s) of a forum they will have access to.

In this case, this thread occurs on the 'Open Forum.' I'm unclear as to whether or not this is a public forum.

Perhaps Admin could offer some input here?

Rex

Rex & L.A.W.,

I have been montoring the post and replies that has been going through here and, I have got to say that the people that are degrating you L.A.W. must not have seen you and Hadley on CMT and must post his eyes on the rogue that is taking the airways, first of all L.A.W. a man of your expierence and attitude never has to explain himself to two idiots that have no idea of a good agent if it bit them in the A@$. Lance I have talked with hadley, and you gentlemen do a great job for the profeesion so keep it up. people that have been posting the comments on here need to get a life, they are just jealous because there so called careers in this field are not working out because they operate just like they talk which is dirty and unprofessional. so lance and rex my hats go off to you gentlemen for TRYING to explain to these idiots how professionals operate.

Hello All Licensed BEA's
Some times a person just has to sit back and wonder is this really worth my time.

Have a good week,

_________________
The Rose Investigations LLC
Collection Agency
Security & Investigations Consultant
Retired Private Investigator & Bail Enforcement
NAM VET 1969- 1975 US Army (RECON)
Office 260-220-3877
1-888-631-5520
Fax 260-456-6062

David,

Actually, in my opinion, I cannot take a lurker position when misinformation, distortions, ill-informed conjecture, and playground insults are used to cast negative light on this trade of ours.

Touchy-feely-warm fuzzy dilatantes typically resort to personal attacks, double talk, unfounded and unsupported statements that some legislature-type may be finding interest in, lest well-informed rebuttal argument enter into the mix in such a way that new laws are not proposed in a feel-good-legislative way.

Some will argue that dignifying ignorant rants by responding is a waste of time, but I maintain the position that ignoring those with no BE frame of reference does no service for new people whose opinions are forming and people in power who may be watching.

Henceforth, I will continue to engage those in productive debate who are given to acting without the benefit of fact-rooted logic.

Rex