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Sickening Press
https://ftp.fugitiverecovery.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=10593		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  AndyL [ Mon 09 Nov 2009 05:45 ]
Post subject:  Sickening Press
First this article came out.

Bailbondsmen could end up dead if they don't do a better job of picking the right house:

http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/ne...aspx?id=371809

By Kermit Miller
Tuesday, November 03, 2009 at 6:15 p.m.

The Missouri Department of Insurance today conducted the third of four scheduled public hearings on the bail bonds industry.

Insurance director John Huff has set up a 15 member panel composed of lawmakers, court officers, and bonding business people to review Missouri bonding laws and regulations.

Ironically, the hearing comes in the same week as an episode in which bonding agents appear to have pushed their way into the wrong Springfield home.

"We have no idea who they were and why there were in our home,” Robbi Cox, who was confused by bondsmen said. “Because we didn't even know the people they were looking for.”

Cox said several people rushed into her home Sunday, waiving guns and scaring the wits out of her family.

"I was basically confused and scared and stuff,” Cox said. “I don't know what was happening or anything.”

The bounty hunters were looking for a fugitive from Franklin County. When they realized they had the wrong house, they pushed their way into a neighbor’s home, having first thrown the homeowner to the ground outside. Police now have several stories to sort through, though it appears the bonding agents were looking for a man who was a friend of a woman who was visiting the neighbor. Both families involved want answers about the limits of bonding agent authority.

"They have less the restrictions that what a law enforcement agency has and can make some entries under some circumstances,” Springfield Police Department Maj. Kevin Routh said. “And that's the key that's under investigation here...is, did they have enough information to make entry into the residence?"

Springfield police provided no information about the bonding company, nor the agents involved in the apparent mistake.

The Greene County prosecutor's office will review the case.

The final public hearing on the bonding business is scheduled for next Tuesday at the state capitol in Jefferson City.








Then this one....



http://www.news-leader.com/article/2009911090361[code][/code]
Author:  AndyL [ Mon 09 Nov 2009 05:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sickening Press
I had to do this in multiple posts. Something is wrong. If I go past a page making a post, I cant see what Im typing, it keeps jumping up and down.

Im on the committee holding the public hearings and attempting to revamp the laws pertaining to bail bonds in MO. I have been very excited about this, until now. Im afraid this incident is going to bite us hard. I walked into the hearing in Springfield last Tuesday only to have a microphone shoved in my face by KOLR 10, asking about the incident, not about the hearings as has been happening from the media. (This proves they would much rather have dirt than positive news, to me anyway.) I knew nothing about it. Our final hearing is tomorrow in Jefferson City. Im really dreading it now. A news station from Jeff City has picked up on it. To make it worse, if you go to the link posted above, that news source has picked up on the fact that the clowns in question worked for Adams Bail Bonds. Mr. Adams happens to be on the committee as well.

This is not going to be good. All the legitimacy we were getting from this may just go right out the window. Its very sad. I dont in any way condone the actions of the people involved and hope they get the book thrown at them both in criminal and civil courts. But with that said, we cannot buy a break from the media. With all the positive things we have had happening over the last month with these hearings and the potential of the long term positives that could come out of this committee, they are focused on four idiots who obviously have no clue of how to do their job or the laws of the state.

Im going to go throw up now.
Author:  4130 [ Mon 09 Nov 2009 09:11 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sickening Press
I am new to the industry. Can someone provide me some guidance on when to do an entry? I have decided not to do entries at all until I find a good mentor. I have asked several police in my area. Their interpretation of Taylor vs. Taintor is anything goes if your BEA. Obviously this is not the case. To me this is morally reprehensible. I have no problem with doing entries if their needed and done correct. Since I can't get a legal or moral definition from police or WSDOL. I don't feel comfortable doing one. I have been told it's not really necessary if your a good BEA.

Once you decide to do an entry what weapons, gear, and tactics are acceptable? I teach Dynamic and Static entry classes. I am aware of what weapons and gear should be used to protect us. What I teach Military would not be acceptable in BEA even if you got the right house. What I teach LEO would probably be questionable for BEA in the court of public opinion. Most BEA I talk to say body armor and rifles is for SWAT and we should not have it. If we are doing entries it seems we should not limit our safety because of stereotypes and lack of training. So I know what should be used to make us safe but that is not necessarily what is acceptable in the industry. Another reason I won't do an entry until I have a good mentor.

Can anyone with experience tell me their thoughts? I don't ever want to be the guys in this story.
Author:  KARMA [ Mon 09 Nov 2009 09:53 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sickening Press
Actually Andy I think that you could turn this around and make it a positive for you. Weed out the creeps and put into play some sort of uniformity in training. I do agree however that it comes at an inconvenient time
So stop puking and put something positive together for your meeting (just imagine how Mr Adams must feel right now).

4130 ~ there are several posts here about making entry. Third party houses are always a touchy subject and realistically a NO NO. There was recently a thread (viewtopic.php?f=26&t=10450) posted by DanM about a case that has made it thru trial and been adjudicated . . .

Andy . . . go make majic
Author:  4130 [ Mon 09 Nov 2009 10:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sickening Press
Thanks again LuVonda! I have been trying to do searches as much as possible. There is so many posts it's hard to weed through them even with the search function. I guess these are good problems to have. :lol:

I think the timing is perfect for reforming the laws in MO. I would tell the press this is an example of why regulation needs to happen. Industry Professionals should be called upon if they want meaningful regulation in the industry. A politician is no more competent of regulating the press than the BEA industry. Something to that effect would get the point across to them. I would word it a lot better.
Author:  AndyL [ Mon 09 Nov 2009 11:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sickening Press
The best I can tell you about making entry is dont. If you dont have a visual on the person and know 100% they are in the house, dont do it.
Author:  KARMA [ Mon 09 Nov 2009 12:57 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sickening Press
I concur Andy. No Visual . . . No FORSURE the individual is in there . . . NO ENTRY.
Author:  4130 [ Mon 09 Nov 2009 15:09 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sickening Press
I figured it was a safe bet not to unless I have eyes on them. For no other reason than it's not something I would want to happen to me. So I would not want to do it to somebody else.

There seems to be a lot of grey area even if you know they are there. The laws say one thing, the police another, BEA's all have a different view on the subject. I think with experience the correct way of doing things will become apparent.
Author:  sam221 [ Tue 10 Nov 2009 01:18 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sickening Press
After 12 long years in the bail bizzzzz I might or might NOT know a thing or 2 about doing "forced entry's".... I know I have yet to call you,but I will,soon.

I think we should hook up and maybe do some business together. I'm sure we can learn from eachother.

Derek, A.K.A. Sam221 8)
Author:  4130 [ Tue 10 Nov 2009 10:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: Sickening Press
sam221 wrote:
After 12 long years in the bail bizzzzz I might or might NOT know a thing or 2 about doing "forced entry's".... I know I have yet to call you,but I will,soon.

I think we should hook up and maybe do some business together. I'm sure we can learn from eachother.

Derek, A.K.A. Sam221 8)


I have no doubt I can learn from you. I have already learned plenty about what not to do from those who don't make it in the business. I will learn a lot more from somebody who has made it as long as you. I have nothing but time and patience. Seems that's the only way into Bail Enforcement and Private Investigation. It really applies to any business. I look forward to hearing from you.
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