Issues of having a concealed weapon when making an arrest.

I wanted peoples thoughts on the pro's and con's of concealed carry while working as a bail recovery agent. Specifically i had in mind was the issue of the person you are try to apprehend getting a hold of your weapon as you attempt to subdue them. To give some specific information about how this pertains to me is that me and 2 others will be working together doing bail recovery, one of us has army spec ops experience and he would be the one of the group do to concealed carry.

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I See said the Blind man to the Deaf man.
Red Cross instructor
soon to be bail recovery agent
Denver, Co
Skype greyfoxisa

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." --Albert Einstein

Would it be any different if the weapon was exposed and the defendant was trying to take it?

Both yes and no, if the weapon is exposed you will naturally be more conscientious about maintaining control of it. However a concealed weapon is well concealed but during a struggle the perp can suddenly notice it and make an unpredictable attempt to get a hold of it. Also having the weapon in the open could trigger the fight or flight reaction in them early on in the encounter which i would think is a bad thing but if i am wrong i would be happy to be corrected.

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I See said the Blind man to the Deaf man.
Red Cross instructor
soon to be bail recovery agent
Denver, Co
Skype greyfoxisa

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." --Albert Einstein

In the 10+ years that I have been a "bondsman" and while doing my own pickups... I have generally carried concealed and never had an issue... never.... of course I am very low key and usually have been able to "talk" the perp into the cuffs... which I have found is a bit easier than getting into a physical confrontation...

Now to try and answer your question... If the person you are after, knows you are a recovery agent... he probably already believes you are armed and whether he can see it or not.... may be a moot point.

I personally think your concern of whether the weapon is concealed or open won't have much of an impact on your action... you will have too many other things to concern yourself with... just make sure that it is in a holster that is secure and that should alleviate any probability of it being withdrawn or lost during a struggle.

If however, you have the weapon drawn and in your hand.... be prepared to use it.... never draw a weapon unless you are prepared to pull the trigger.... because you have raised the threat level to a much higher position... often the sight of a gun, still in the holster, is enough to give pause to the person you are arresting.

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Bill Marx, Sr.
"FREE STATE BAIL BONDS"
"FREE STATE INVESTIGATIONS"
DCJS: 99-176979
Cell: 434-294-0222

"Endeavor to Persevere" "Lone Watie"

"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that , comes from bad judgment" "Will Rogers"

We never carry concealed on a recovery unless the state we are in requires the weapon be concealed. Generally we carry in an open manner, and use a locking holster that prevents the firearm from being taken without some serious work. I found early on that if I needed to draw my firearm, it was all but impossible to re-holster in the concealed holster without taking way to much time to do so.

We have worked out a system where one person secures the defendant, and a second can place the restraints on them. We never go alone, generally there are 3 of us at the location. Restrain first, search second. We rarely have problems with the defendant. Its always a brother or mom or cousin that gets in the way.

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Jeff D.
Gauntlet Professional Services
Fugitive Recovery, Bail Bonds, Process Servers, Investigations, Security, Training,
State Approved Courses for POST and DIFP
Located in Central/Southwest Missouri/St. Louis/Kansas City
417.309.0582

Well Said.

I know we all have different ways of getting the job done... I found out something a long time ago.... if you go somewhere and you are "dressed for bear"... as in LE SWAT type gear... you will very often find the "bear"...

I am only a bondsman, not BEA, so this has a lot to do with my setup, but I have recovered a fair number of skips over the years... I have posted a lot as to how I dress and operate so I won't go into it here... just to say... whatever works for you is what you should use. Me personally, I dress like I am going to Disneyworld... although I may be carrying concealed with cuffs under my shirt... it works for me and has caused me no ill effects in over 10 years... don't misunderstand me... I can be serious if the need arises but so far, it really has not and I have never drawn my weapon... but I would not hesitate if I felt the need. A lot of folks laugh when I tell them how I hunt and I suppose many think I am just kidding, but truth be known, low key works... at least for me.

I own a lot of firearms and I shoot quite a bit... practice makes perfect they say.... but as mentioned, I have never drawn the weapon in self defense, having said that... if I ever do... it won't go back into the holster until everything is secured.

Be safe... but be sure.

Now that is the truth!!!

_________________
Bill Marx, Sr.
"FREE STATE BAIL BONDS"
"FREE STATE INVESTIGATIONS"
DCJS: 99-176979
Cell: 434-294-0222

"Endeavor to Persevere" "Lone Watie"

"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that , comes from bad judgment" "Will Rogers"

I knew some of the more experienced agents here would put everything into the right perspective.

Especially about when carrying concealed as I have never done so.

I agree with these guys 100%. When we go out it's usually concealed initially. The most important thing for us is to blend in and look as normal as we can. Depending on the circumstances, however, we may benefit from keeping a firearm in plain sight, but when we do we ensure proper insignia follows, and we certainly don't prance about dressed in BDUs and 511 gear. (Yes, we've discussed how we dress before) For us, concealed initially works best, but not in every situation. It depends on the environment we're going into and the circumstances we're about to place ourselves in.

I will say, however, that we've been very fortunate to have our local LE cooperate (mostly out of not understanding anything we do) as well as the public. We've even had kids come running up to our vehicles asking for stickers, because local LEO keep stickers and small toys in their vehicles for PR. We're careful to tell them we're not police, but they don't care.

Sorry for the tangent...I like reading Bill's posts, and it seems I'm picking up some of his good habits

That is always the bottom line... every situation is different and so.... every set up will differ slightly...


I would like to provide, what I think is a perspective on this line of thinking.... 'speezacks' advice, if you will....

I will say this.......... and it seems to be the norm.... LE in general, will react to you in a manner that is dictated by you.... what I am saying is that if you show up in BDU's.... decked out like a SWAT team.... and you are the least bit "know it all" you will very likely alienate the officers on scene... and that is starting off on the wrong foot.

If, however, you show up with the attitude... "officers, I need and would greatly appreciate your help in this matter..." you may find a completely different reception...

Police officers, from the bottom line patrolman to the high ranking detectives in the field... they all... and I mean all... will respond if you "ask them" for advice and help... they want to be top dog... that is a normal human reaction and when you put them in the 'alfa' role... they often get very responsive to you...

... of course, this will vary in certain circumstances but more often than not.... most people want to be in charge... so regardless of your personal persona.... let them be in charge, even if you feel you know more than they.... don't go into a situation with that attitude....

I am not saying to "Kowtow" to them... maintain your control and strength, just be respectful and allow them to respond in kind....

This has always worked for me................... of course, some LE are just azzholes and can't be manipulated but most will succumb to the............ "Your in charge, I need your advice and help..." and smile.

_________________
Bill Marx, Sr.
"FREE STATE BAIL BONDS"
"FREE STATE INVESTIGATIONS"
DCJS: 99-176979
Cell: 434-294-0222

"Endeavor to Persevere" "Lone Watie"

"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that , comes from bad judgment" "Will Rogers"