Absolutley . . . IT is a Respect Thing
I agree 100 % with Scott's statement . . . Kudos on what you do and how you do it.
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| Author: | WyomingRecovery [ Fri 10 Jun 2011 10:51 ] |
| Post subject: | It's a Respect thing... |
This last two months, I've had the opportunity to meet a few bondsman/Recovery Agents... Paul Flournoy of Flournoy Bail Bonds and Fugitive Recovery (Richmond, VA) Rachel of Zig Zag Bail Bonds(Everett, WA) Mike Rocha of Bail Enforcement Agency (Everett, WA) Paul of Absolute Bail Recovery (Lynnwood, WA) John Sinn of Sinn Investigational Network (Montgomery, AL) Paul found me on through the FRN and decided to try me out. The day he sent the file out, I went and followed up his leads in Gillette, WY. Though the leads didn't pan out, we used it to pursue new leads that led to his defendants location in Lysite, WY. We then struggled through the afternoon to obtain a flight from Wyoming/Montana to Richmond, VA and Paul was able to schedule a flight for the next day. I got a motel and sat on the Defendant. The next day, one of the bondsman I know in Casper (Eric Overly of Speedy Release Bail Bonds) was willing to give us a ride to the airport so I didn't have to leave my vehicle and equipment at the airport. We then proceeded to retrieve our tickets and coordinated the flights with TSA. Even after several issues (unforseen circumstances) cause many delays in our travel through missed connection flights, I was able to shorten the layorver times by coordinating with TSA, Airport Police, and Delta Airlines betweens flights to get us to Richmond as quickly as possible. I met with Paul and one of his fellow agents, alond with Richmond Airport Police so that we could do the prisoner exchange down in the RAPD lounge (for minimal "viewership". Paul slipped me an envelope and I quickly stashed it in my back pocket. We walk towards the main entrance where they were parked and help small talk before we went our separate ways. We both kept in contact with each other throughout the remainder of my return trip. Paul was a very exceptional person to subcontract a case from. He was very professional as well as kept to every promise that he made. If anyone else has the opportunity to work along side or receive a case through them I place high regards and respect for them. I had the pleasure to meet Paul from Absolute Bail Recovery through a tip on a case that I was working for another bondsman in Washington that led to a direct apprehension of the defendant. One week later he sent me a case file on a gentlemen where his information led them to believe he was in Butte, MT. After receiving the case I explained to them that I have apprehended this gentleman before not less than six months prior, and that I would be able to get him again for them. The next day I was in Everett, WA with the defendant to book him in with Paul. He introduced me to Micke Rocha (Bail Enforcement Agency) and Rachel (Zig Zag Bail Bonds). I was very pleased with their professionalism and her gratitude of getting the case close so quickly. Last week I received a call from John out of Alabama (whom was referred to me by Mike Rocha) in regards to helping each other on cases we were both working. We are coordinating the paperwork together in order to assist each other and I plan on this being another very uplifting experience. This proves that when you stay under the radar, you get more referrals through networking (even when you've only spoken with someone for less the fifteen minutes. I brought these people up because I believe that they deserved some recognition for their honesty, respect, and due diligence. I always enjoy expanding my own work by networking throughout the country. I hope that our future endeavors in business together continue to grow and build amongst the defendants we capture. I would also like to mention Ray, Gary, and their employees through Liberty Bail Bonds in Washington. I have continued to receive case files with them and always enjoy working for them as they've always been prompt on payment and properly filled out case files. |
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| Author: | Mdbtyhtr [ Fri 10 Jun 2011 17:35 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: It's a Respect thing... |
Tim, You have done very well and one of the keys to your success is your ability to be mobile an d travel. The biggest issue that I have had with networking cases is finding out that others may not have had their financial or transportation house in order, but were afraid to say so. It seems that it is apparent that you have your house in order and enjoy your work. I love to read well written representations of our industry performing covertly as it should, only known to those that have an interest in the project. It is also demonstrable of the networking among proven professionals, nationwide. Congratulations on becoming the benchmark that others should strive to achieve. Scott |
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| Author: | KARMA [ Fri 10 Jun 2011 20:13 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: It's a Respect thing... |
Absolutley . . . IT is a Respect Thing I agree 100 % with Scott's statement . . . Kudos on what you do and how you do it. |
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| Author: | WyomingRecovery [ Sat 11 Jun 2011 06:46 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: It's a Respect thing... |
Thank you Scott and LuVonda. I appreciate both of your comments. There are times when I do have my house in order, but most of the time I don't. Working by myself most of the time tends to take a toll on me when driving. When I am out searching for the client's defendant, I try my best to be as professional as possible (aside from pretexting when necessary). Financially, however... There are many times when I am busy working cases that the financial burden becomes less stressful as the closure ratio stays pretty high. But, most often than not, because it's just me the financial end, it does tend to become a burden (still have to pay bills). However, when I receive a case file, the first thing I do is go over the file and figure out what's been done, what needs to be done, and start my e-searches. Then before I even leave, I look at my available finances and plan out my travel arrangements. Now, when I know that I may not have sufficient fundage, I have never been afraid to request a retainer to cover the financial end from the bondsman (which I usually know prior to receiving the case file). I love working OOS cases, because the travel, the thrill of the "extended chase", meeting new people, etc. make it worth while. But, I don't have the luxury to have a designated AO. While Wyoming does allow commercial surety bail, there are few bail bondsman far between. Most localized bondsman are in Cheyenne, Laramie, and Casper. Even more so, they handle the whole state rather than just locally. Most of them go after their own FTAs as well. And Montana, well.... that is not a very happy crowd. There are plenty of bondsman, and even more recovery agents. However, somewhere along the line of prior to me moving up this way, one of them screwd the pooch bad. It's a battle to get paid the close to the industry standard out there. Their minimum is $100/recovery. I have yet to determine whom was at fault there, but it does explain why there is so many forfeitures out there. I started getting contracts out there last year and was closing cases way too quickly for one of the bondsman. The only response I had is that I don't like sitting on cases and letting them go cold. Plus, I refuse to drive two hours to pick up cases and not actually work. Wasted gas not to put in the man hours. But it appears that they want to pay out way less than the industry standard, hide bonds to keep the payouts low, and then try to negotiate on larger bonds because I caught them too quickly to be worth the industry fees. Here is my thought to some of the Montana bondsman and MOST of the Montana "Bounty Hunters"... either start doing the job as it was intended, paying like the rest of the country does, and get the "ex-felons" and drug addicts out of the industry... or I will lobby to get this industry regulated in both Montana and Wyoming. There only a few of us in the industry in this area to respect this industry and these other guys are destroying its core intergrety and policies up severely. (that was my random venting moment). Yes, my car does look like an unmarked impala, but I use the partition cage as a necessity during interstate transport. I have a tactical vest that says "Bail Enforcement Officer" but will not wear it unless physically working a bond over $50k or my research deems it a "high risk" case. Usually, I wear street clothing, or jeans and a polo shirt. My vest is under my losse fitted shirt, badge either on my belt or chained to my neck for quick concealment (I wear both ways because of whatever jurisdiction I am in, if plain clothed officers wear their badges one way, I make sure to wear it the other way so it helps a little better as to distinguish that I am NOT a police officer), bikini cuff case for easy access and an off duty holster. I ALWAYS notify the jurisdiction I'm in of my presence and my intentions (respecting their "backyard") as well as show up at the Police/Sheriff's Office to introduce myself physically. I find it better that if they physically see you, your paperwork, and your professionalism, they are more likely to respect you and what you're doing. Plus, I have always the same response from every single department. - I introduce myself, my company name, whom I am in search for, and show ALL my paperwork to them. They ask to make a copy of my paperwork for their records and I accept. The person goes to make a copy while I explain to them where I plan on going and that I will keep dispatch fully aware of my location at all times and they aprreciate that. The officer comes back with the paperwork and one of two things always happens. Either they've had run ins with my defendant and give me his LKA and common hangouts, or they say he/she is not in their system and wish me the best of luck. Both scenarios have had the same outcome. While I was out seaching I've received a call from one of the police officers who located my guy, or have thought of new information to assist me. Several occasions when I was doing surveillance, I've had officers bring me coffee (kindly enough I accept and thank them for showing up in an unmarked unit). On the occasions where they've located my guy, they actually detained them till I arrived and placed them into custody. There will always be those that departments that aren't willing to help in these manners, but I've always thanked them for their time and assistance no matter what the outcome was. One time, I had a department who wanted nothing to do with "bail enforcement or the likes of 'em". I stayed professional with them and still complied with everything I told them I was going to do. The next time I was out there, their attitudes were completely different and they were even willing to assist in the search... just because of my professionalism. Just like many on here have said, as I have said it as well, "We'll continue to get the bad image reputation because of those that refuse to learn properly and do the job as it was intended because of their "reality show" heroes inspired them." Most of us work diligently together to help and assist each other to protect our clients, indemnitors, and defendants interests while striving for zero liability. We can help weed out the "those in need of a vacation stay for $31/dy" and get them out of our industry. LEOs, Judges, and Attorneys may have the bad taste in their mouth with us, but PROFESSIONALISM will help soothe those problems in time. Many of the areas I've been in still hate bondsman and bounty hunters but have learned to respect me as an individual and a fellow "brother (from a different mother)" in law. They love that comment too. Mainly, they love the fact that I respect them, their community, and myself. I don't play Policeman, and I don't play Bounty Hunter. I am a Bail Enforcement Agent, and I do just that. My favorite compliment that I always here from them is, "Why is it that with as smart and as knowledgable in their laws that I am not in Law Enforcement?" My response everytime: Our lovely country has a viscious cycle that needs to stay complete. LEOs respond to crimes and arrest those that need to be arrested. Bail Bondsman bond exist to help those that need to continue to provide and care for their families and themselves (be productive members of society) and uphold the "innocent until proven guilty" conept, prosecutors need to determine how they intend to prove their defendants guilt through evidence, judges hand down their sentences or dismisses their case based on that evidence, and we are here to ensure that the defendant sees that to the end. When they don't it's our responsibilty to clean up the mess as quickly and quietly as possible by ensuring they are returned to their court in the reasonable amount of time determined by the state. My old response used to be catchy.... "Security Officers are insurance deductions, Bail Enforcement Officer's are tax-payer deductions". I found I had too explain that out a little more than I cared to, so I stopped using it. |
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| Author: | Jayc4929 [ Sat 11 Jun 2011 20:34 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: It's a Respect thing... |
Timothy, You seem very well versed and have your head on straight in regards to this industry.You have a good outlook as well. I dont belive that I have been in contact with all of the men you spoke of except for Mr. Sinn,I have spoken with him a time or two and you are correct in stating his professionalism. As for your statements about how some bondsmen tend to pay...Well that is happening all over the country and in a way I kind of understand why they try to negotiate(understand not agree with!!) I look at it from a business stand point,they are going to try to get the best deal they can.Just like anybody else trying to get ahead and sometimes it bites them in the arse.What some dont understand is that they get what they pay for and that goes for other businesses as well not just ours. My work ethic mirrors yours in some ways,I do my homework before I attempt to leave out on a case.Whether it is in state or not.I will not leave on a case without knowing a rough estimate of my expenses and if needed I do not hesitate to ask for some up front cash.Usually I have no problems recieving the funds needed and I NEVER ask for a dime more than needed,keep all my receipts to show exactly what the funds were used for at the end of the case or if whenever requested. As for letting a case go cold...I am with you on that one as well.From the minute I recieve a case I start on it and that is the only thing I do from dusk till dawn,a couple of the guys here on this site can attest to that fact!! lol.I have been told to slow down a bit but it is not that I want to knock cases out quick it is that I want to be as efficient as possible."work smarter not harder" is what I like to say. Anyway,our pay scale is always subject to change when you have so much competition that are willing to do the job for half if not less than that.Just another draw back of this economy I suppose. Recovery agents are not the only ones competing either,Bondsmen are as well.Which leads me to my other quote that I tend to use " crap rolls downhill" I could go on and on as I tend to ramble at times(must be from hanging around these hallowed halls so long!!)So I will end this post now.  Stay safe and keep up the good work. |
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| Author: | RunninRascalRecovery [ Mon 20 Jun 2011 03:06 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: It's a Respect thing... |
Thank you for this whole string. I found this to be a very educational Post for those just begining in the business, as far as how to conduct yourself in a polite and professional manner when dealing with law enforcement, as well as insight on dealing with bondsmen. I have found many many post on this site that I feel were very helpful, but everything about this post drew me in and kept me reading, like a good book, and I just really felt it deserved a thank you for the thought process and time put into it, not to mention all the time put into getting the experience it took to have the knowledge to share. Thank you all very much, I greatly appreciate all the knowledgable post like this here, as I'm sure other interested newbies are, who are like I am and want to learn to do the job correctly and professionally. |
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| Author: | KARMA [ Thu 23 Jun 2011 19:46 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: It's a Respect thing... |
Rascal is right Timothy . . . just another reason that you are in my Roledex
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| Author: | WyomingRecovery [ Fri 24 Jun 2011 03:46 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: It's a Respect thing... |
Thank you all for the upstanding comments. I continuously strive to keep the positive in this industry alive as much as each person/company here. I wish I could have made it to Vegas to meet most of you, but find I may be doing the same just through the passing. I am finishing up some searches and plan on leaving for a little adventure. I personally wish I wasn't going solo, but the money is just not enough to be able to justify additional people. The adventure you ask? Four Skips/Four States/Four Days. I'll be traveling to Minnesota, Indiana, Ohio, and Kentucky. All of them have to go back to the same jail for the same bonding company. The total bond amounts equal $9k. Some of you may ask why I would travel so much to go after these smaller bonds, and the answer is simple. It's my job  I have worked several larger bonds with this company and it is only fair that I handle the smaller ones as well. They've always taken care of me through expenses, and have treated me like a professional associate. Besides, we all know that it hurts us, or our clients when they have to pay out on a large bond; however, those smaller ones can add up and hurt even more.Hopefully, this trip is as successful as the rest, and the safety of myself AND the defendants stay at 100%. |
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| Author: | Spnewman [ Fri 24 Jun 2011 08:06 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: It's a Respect thing... |
I wish there was some way to keep a level of respect for the whole of recovery agents. A way for us to make it mandatory for a set pay scale. I would have no problem getting looked over because someone is "better" than me, rather than they would do it for dirt cheap. This coming from a beginners stand point. I know that the golden rule to remember is that a bondsman that is willing to risk his ass legally, and reputation just to save a couple dollars, should probably be avoided if possible. |
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| Author: | WyomingRecovery [ Fri 24 Jun 2011 10:20 ] |
| Post subject: | Re: It's a Respect thing... |
Spnewman wrote: I know that the golden rule to remember is that a bondsman that is willing to risk his <b>arse</b> legally, and reputation just to save a couple dollars, should probably be avoided if possible. It's not always the case, though. I have bondsman/clients that are willing to pay more with me than to have someone locally do the job because of my professionalism, due dilligence, and availability. Other times it is a fight to work even at the industry standard because someone is willing to charge less. Even though most of them are "fresh" or "green" in the industry charging less, I have even found some that have been in the industry longer charging less to cut throat and take over clients from other recovery agents, thus making more money in their pockets and getting more business. I can't say that I haven't thought about donig the same thing, but I have a reputation and a huge level of respect for fellow professionals. It's easier for me to work with the clients that trust and respect my level of workmanship and build clientel through word of mouth than to market out and "snake" other recovery agent's business. My fees are standard, but becomes more costly through forfeiture expirations, and distance. Some bondsman don't want to pay the fees, and some are willing. In the end, I look at my fees in one way only. It's a lot cheaper to pay me what I am asking, than to pay the forfeiture. But I am always willing to negotiate on a case by case basis. I have done work for less that what I normally charge based on the right conditions and the terms of the agreement. I tend to be a little cheaper if its the first case I am doing with the bondsman as I look forward to doing more business with them later. They are made aware of my regular fees and are made understood of the discount as a "professional courtesy" for obtaining my initial services. If you are having issues with obtaining new bondsman as clients, be it the lack of experience or because they already have agents they use.... 1. Check your AO's remittance procedures. If they allow remittance to the bondsman, ask to see their forfeitted bonds. Allow you the opportunity to locate these individuals. Once located, give them the bondsman a call and ask for the permission to close the case for them and obtain the contracts. You'd be amazed that you can make money on the forfeitures as well as build more clientel just from that. As you continue to close more, they'll start handing you fresh FTAs (NOI in some states). 2. Keep up to date with the one's that don't have anything for you. Don't just call and ask if they got anything for you yet. Step it up. Bring them some coffee, donuts, tacos, etc. Offer to handle some of their legwork for a little bit (be it dropping of some powers to the jail/courts, or even checking up on their currents cases. Making sure they have photographs of the defendants, the addresses are good, the indem/def still works at their listed addresses. Getting pictures of residences/vehicles, etc. *HELP BUILD THAT POTIENTIAL CASE FILE* You may just end up getting it if they need to be rearrested (because you already know the case). 3. Offer to pick up their defendants from the jail (for a small fee) and bring them to their office. $10-$25 per trip depending on the distance. Then offer to drive the defendant to their address. (These are the perfect times to get to know the area... vehicles in the driveway, size of the residence and potiential "escape" points. GET PICTURES for the bondsman. The more information you get, the happier the client. These are just little sugestions. Take some time, hash it out. You can come up with many ideas. I personally don't believe in flyers, resumes, portfolios, etc. It's a waste of paper that will most likely be FILE 13'd. My resume are my clients. If anyone wants to check me out to see if I am worth using, I give them a couple bondsman that I use to call up and they can ask. Eventually, you just handle your clients, and pick up new clients by referral or word of mouth. I've had a couple instances over the years where the detention facility would recommend me to a bondsman for recoveries. It rarely happens, but it does leave a very good feeling in my ability to do my work as well as strive to better myself every time. Hopefully, some of this information helps the newer agents in guiding their way to a successful business. It won't work with every bondsman, but it will get you closer. They may even recommend to you another bondsman that may need a little help, even some serious help. Just be patient, don't get frustrated, and always read through the forums for more information. If you have any questions, feel free to ask the more experienced agents and bondsman. They're easy to spot. Luvonda, Bill Marx, Tony Suggs, Scott Maclean, and Luke Ferrell are just a few of them. Be courteous, adn take constructive criticism. It will get you very far in this business. |
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