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 Post subject: Re: COLORADO 102
 Post Posted: Wed 10 Nov 2010 05:57 
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I would proffer that if we approached it as"Yes, we are absolutely trying to save our family business, that employs X amount of people and pays X in taxes every year" we would diffuse their argument completely. Kind of like a politician that gets caught doing something wrong, if you step up and own it right away, it does not really matter what you did. I would also add the number of re-arrests that we make in and as a percentage to local leo. Further, the nimber of warrants or capias that will be served as a result of our work products. How many of the people that you have surrendered to the Sheriff or LEO have wants or warrants that are not associated with bail? In Maryland, when a defendant is bailed out on multiple charges, they will give him/her 10% to the court bonds on the larger charges and make one of them a small 100% bond, but give them all the same court date. So by doing that, they are arbitrarily acknowledging the value of commercial surety, as well as allowing us to make pittance to guarantee the defendant appears for ALL of the charges.

Scott

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R.E. "Scott" MacLean III

"Leaders are like Eagles, you never see them in a flock, but one at a time"

Chesapeake Group Investigations, Inc.
Chesapeake Bail Bonds
877-574-0500
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 Post subject: Re: COLORADO 102
 Post Posted: Wed 10 Nov 2010 07:03 
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As always, Scott, your assessment of the situation is right on the mark.

I know that when I post something on an important issue, you will step up to the plate and offer additional points that clarify not only my position but our industries position.

You da man... and maybe you should be the point man on this important issue... I have seen you in action; listened and read your comments and they would be well received by the leaders in this fight.

I know you have a lot on your plate but I really think you and guys like you... ie: Tony S., Joe S., Dave M., Marshall... just to mention several off the top of my head... and so many on here that could carry this fight forward, should get in the fray. We need the serious side in this one and although I am always interested in this important issue... we need big guns like you and your contacts to enter on our side.

I try to make you smile... you and others make us think. That is a very important difference in our style.

_________________
Bill Marx, Sr.
"FREE STATE BAIL BONDS"
"FREE STATE INVESTIGATIONS"

DCJS: 99-176979
Cell: 434-294-0222

"Endeavor to Persevere" "Lone Watie"

"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that , comes from bad judgment" "Will Rogers"


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 Post subject: Re: COLORADO 102
 Post Posted: Wed 10 Nov 2010 13:33 
 
I'll jump back in here for a moment.

I first met the reps from AFPOB at one of many organizational meetings in Colorado, last spring.

In retrospect, it appeared that the 'battle plan' had already been determined and I think we all took it to mean they were basing the plan on what was learned from the fight in Virginia...that "no one cares about bail or bondsmen." It was touted as a losing issue to try to garner sympathy or to educate the public about our plight. "No one cares."

So, we went boldly ahead. Right or wrong, we were all swept up in the fervor. Finally, it seemed, bail agents in Colorado were putting aside their petty differences and their competitive natures to work together.

Three years ago there were around 1000 licensed bail agents in Colorado. Today there are around 400. To try to tell the public that these bondspeople and their families would suffer if/when commercial bail went the way of the horse & buggy in Colorado still, IMHO, seems like a losing issue.

My discontent with the effort now is focused on the fact that there appears to have been no Plan B to go to if the effort fell short, which of course, it did. I believe a contingency plan should have been pre-determined to give us something to fall back on...something other than filing a lawsuit in an effort to confirm that our opponents accepted big money (tax dollars) from Pretrial Justice Institute.

Should that charge ultimately be proven, then what? So what? It may be a moral victory but it won't change the decision of the voters.

I am still looking for the answer to the question, "What now?"

Professional regards.
David Platt
aka: Bailagent100


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 Post subject: Re: COLORADO 102
 Post Posted: Thu 11 Nov 2010 21:11 
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I agree with you Dave and would offer this.

I think the focus and the agenda was aimed at the wrong point... "safe streets and not releasing criminals" was fine but I just don't think it was strong enough and obviously that was the case.

I certainly don't have the answers... and hindsight is always 20/20 but I think the point should maybe have been... "there is a place for both pretrial services and commercial bail bonds, together, working toward the same ends"... I think we all are on the same page or should be, we should want to provide a defendant with his constitutional right to be free while awaiting his trial but at the same time maintain vigilance and proper surveillance and control over him and his activities during his pretrial freedom. Whether he is allowed a bond is up to the magistrate or the judge but after that determination is made his next step can involve both commercial bail and pretrial. This is the way it is in several of my local jurisdiction. I work together with pretrial... I write the bond, have the defendant released and then he reports to and is watched over by the pretrial services... he maintains contact with pretrial and also with his bondsman.

THERE IS NO REASON THAT PRETRIAL AND COMMERCIAL BONDING CANNOT WORK TOGETHER. That is my opinion.

The problem in Virginia and I suppose most other states as well.... is that the state government wants to basically shut down the commercial bonding business and handle the entire activity through state and federal sponsored TAX SUPPORTED agencies that will end up being just another government takeover of a private industry.

I thought a very good point being that the commercial bonding services cost the taxpayers absolutely nothing and provide a service that frees up law enforcement to do the job they were intended.

Pretrial, as their published agenda, wants to abolish commercial bonding for several reasons as I see it.... to release more defendants, thereby addressing the overcrowding in the prison and jail system... which is an extremely serious and very large problem... to bring in revenue through the implementing of the fees and premiums that will come in to the pockets of the state and local governments since private bonding is gone... and providing yet another source of a tax supported government bureaucratic agency that feeds and grows on itself thus ever increasing control and power and removing yet another private industry.

Those were some quick thoughts I had on where it may or should have gone... just my opinion.

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Bill Marx, Sr.
"FREE STATE BAIL BONDS"
"FREE STATE INVESTIGATIONS"

DCJS: 99-176979
Cell: 434-294-0222

"Endeavor to Persevere" "Lone Watie"

"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that , comes from bad judgment" "Will Rogers"


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 Post subject: Re: COLORADO 102
 Post Posted: Fri 12 Nov 2010 15:54 
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Our state association just had a meeting on Wednesday and APOB subject came up. Some of the sureties and bail agents in CA are weary of working with them.

Now, I have not spent much research of my own on APOB. So what I am stating here is what I have heard from others.

Apparently APOB, is heading to San Diego or is already there gathering up agents to fight PTR Services there and throughout CA.

I heard a comment from a bail agent that, he felt that APOB is being pushed and financed by Seneca Surety and Bail USA. One of their goals is to also sign up more bail agents with Seneca.

Again, I am only repeating what I heard. I have no facts to back this up.

Another comment is, APOB comes in and defines the issues and leads the fight from that view point with little or no input from the locals.

The CA bail agent associations, are not, at least at this point going to collaborate with APOB. They have already began a local fight in Santa Clara County ( San Jose) and will not share anything with APOB.

I will try to research more about APOB and what the national and state associationa are doing with or without the help of APOB.


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 Post subject: Re: COLORADO 102
 Post Posted: Fri 12 Nov 2010 20:41 
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Quote:
I heard a comment from a bail agent that, he felt that APOB is being pushed and financed by Seneca Surety and Bail USA. One of their goals is to also sign up more bail agents with Seneca.


That may very well be a true statement. If you look back at my posts earlier this year, in Richmond, Va... during several meetings involving the APOB, Seneca/Bail USA was very well represented with Ms. Burns, CEO/President giving a short pep talk.

I will say at this point that I am a surety agent. I write for Seneca/Bail USA and have represented them for about half of my 10 years in this business. I have found them to be a very good surety to work with and frankly I have had my fill of BS general agents and other sureties that I had the unfortunate connection with in my early .... formative years. I have seen both sides of the coin in this business and my association with Bail USA and Seneca has been nothing but positive to date.

If Seneca, as a surety, is attempting to increase its take of the business by hiring more bail agents, well, that I do believe is what business is all about. Increasing the number of agents dilutes our income potential as individual agents but of course has the opposite effect on the surety. They are looking to build, we are looking to reduce competition, so is there a middle ground? Probably not.

I want you to read a statement copied from Bail USA's public website. This is open internet so I am not stating anything but what is already out there. I make no comments either for or against this posting. Read it and judge for yourself.

As stated, this is a quote from Bail USA/Seneca as posted by Cheryl Burns, CEO/President. I have met and talked with her on several occasions and found her to be a very personable and honest individual.

Quote:
A Message From the President
Cheryl Burns, President

November 4, 2010
Bail Agents,

What happened in Colorado over the past several months is a testament to how much can be done when a group of committed people decide to get involved and fight for principle. Before Safe Streets Colorado and Proposition 102, the Colorado bail industry was doomed. Bail surety leaders openly discussed their contempt for Colorado and their lack of concern for whether bail remained in the state. Several people, including people concerned about public safety, bail professionals, and activists joined to fight a near certain doom.



The result of their efforts, while Prop 102 did not pass, was more than a half million people standing against criminal welfare and supporting commercial bail in Colorado. This showing - impossible without the efforts of groups like Safe Streets, will likely be the reason the bail industry continues to live in Colorado.



There are some in our industry, particularly at the corporate surety level, who would see this important showing not as a win for Colorado bail agents, but as an opportunity to exert their brand of apologist rhetoric on the people of Colorado and bail agents across the country. This style, which has led to the decay of the bail bond industry in the face of growing tax funded bail programs, is directly responsible for serious and crippling losses over the past 30 plus years. Our industry can ill afford the old, tired, out of touch leadership that has led us down a path toward certain destruction.



I care about bail agents, and I feel a responsibility toward hard working bail professionals who do their jobs in a noble and committed fashion. However, the fight to save bail is about more than that. Our very system of justice is dependent upon a defendant, who is innocent until proven guilty, having an opportunity to garner pretrial release and prepare for their trial - while guaranteeing their appearance in court. Commercial bail does this better by far, and giving in to a system where a defendant's only option for pretrial release is to petition their prosecutor creates a culture ripe for government and prosecutorial abuse.



We have sat on the sideline for thirty years and watched the same old, tired philosophy lead us to the brink of destruction. In a few short months, however, a new outlook has educated and convinced a half million people in Colorado on the importance of commercial bail. We can ill afford to take a broken and dangerous path full of apologist rhetoric and old ideas, when engaging government funded bail programs in support of bail agents creates a fairer and more impartial justice system for all Americans.



Given the facts, we have no choice but to continue fighting - supporting bail agents and embracing new ideas over tired, old, and ineffective leadership.



Thank you.

Sincerely,

Cheryl Burns
President & CEO
Bail USA Inc.


I have read this several times and unless I am missing something, I think it is a positive post that supports us as an industry. If someone can point out a negative side to this post I am all ears.

I cannot address the possibility that Seneca is a strong supporter of APOB. Ms. Burns spoke at two of their meeting that I personally attended in Richmond this year and I know that Seneca made a sizable donation, but then so did several others at the meeting and on the surface I would say that the agenda of APOB would be positive. I do not think they are getting much support from the rank and file of the bail industry. I may be wrong on this point but that is my take as I see it in my travels.

I would also like to hear the general thoughts on APOB and its relationship to us as individual agents. I am getting rather negative vibes on their involvement. Lets hear some facts as the may relate... facts not emotions on this subject please.

I am always open to intelligent discussions based on facts.

_________________
Bill Marx, Sr.
"FREE STATE BAIL BONDS"
"FREE STATE INVESTIGATIONS"

DCJS: 99-176979
Cell: 434-294-0222

"Endeavor to Persevere" "Lone Watie"

"Good judgment comes from experience, and a lot of that , comes from bad judgment" "Will Rogers"


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 Post subject: Re: COLORADO 102
 Post Posted: Sat 13 Nov 2010 14:26 
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I will also state that I have met Cheryl Burns at the national bail agents conventions. I have not one negative thing to say about her or Seneca/BailUSA.

They in fact were sponsors at the California Bail Agents Association convention last year and this year.

My comments were only repeating as accurately as possible of what I heard from some other CA bail agents regarding APOB.

She is correct, many large surety companies have for too long dominated the bail industry to the point that they allow "rogue" agents to create problems for the entire indutry. There needs to be a better coordinated effort to clean up our own house and to deal with government run bail agencies, PTRS.


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